radiator rules question

[tom91ita]

okay, it says same location and same plane and implies must block off any new opening;

3.0 Engine Cooling System
a. Any radiator may be used, provided it is mounted in the original
location, maintains the same plane as the original core and requires no body or structure modifications to install. No new openings created by fitting an alternate radiator may be used for the purpose of ducting air to the engine.

but it can be smaller right? and if it is smaller, that is not really the same location is it?

so original location means between the engine and the front bumper?
same plane means if it was vertical, i can't tilt the top forward?
and if smaller, i have to add blocking plates to prevent having a new opening, right?

[JeffYoung]

I think it can be smaller.

I think it has to be in the same plane, so you are correct, you can't tilt it out of the "stock" plane.

I think if it is smaller, you are correct, you have to block off any resulting holes that allow fresh air to get to the engine bay.

[dickita15]

so original location means between the engine and the front bumper?

I believe same location also mean you cannot move it forward or back.

[billf]

9.1.3 D 3 Cooling System a. "Any rediator may be used,..."

Having been there etc, I can offer this. Rules do not allow you to close the opening. Since you are not allowed to block the opening, air will enter the engine compartment thru it, and you can use it as you wish...after it is in the compartment.

I like the thoughts of: How far inside the compartment specified, is inside the compartment?

Many people read and interpret rules differently. Also, read the Glossery definition of "Engine Compartment", and form your own idea.

Good racing.

Bill

[JeffYoung]

Bill, I would disagree. The rule says "No new openings created by using an alternate radiator" can allow additional air into the engine compartment. I think you have to block them off.

[RacerBill]

OK, I just looked at my radiator. And there is already a HUGE opening beside my stock radiator, allowing air to enter the engine compartment. So putting a smaller radiator in would not create a 'new' opening in my case. But putting a smaller radiator in a space where to openings around the stokk radiator were blocked off would create a 'new' opening that would have to blocked off IMHO.

[billf]

The wording is "...to the engine...", and I submit, we are therefore not allowed to block off the air above/around the new smaller radiator. Simply because the Book doesn't allow us to.

However, (Here we go again!). By making the radiator and panels "one", I believe we can lessen the size of the opening by the use of the component "radiator" in the broad sense (panels are a part thereof) and stay within the strict wording of the rule. I mean the panels are not attached to the bodywork, only the radiator.

I know it sounds tortured, and may be by some peoples's opinion. But I do read the words used, and thier meanings, as either defined by the English Dictionary or the Glossary provided by SCCA.

Really didn't mean to start another thread here, guys. Sorry

Good racing,

Bill

[tom91ita]

The wording is "...to the engine...", ................
Bill

ok. i think i understand your meaning. "to the engine" could mean to the air intake, it could mean to the engine compartment, etc. it is not "clear" what it meant as in "to the engine"

so if i revise it to direct air to the vicinity of the air filter, no because the rules say no. but if i leave the "new" opening created and allow air to flow over the exhaust manifold/headers (at least in my honda of choice) that would be acceptable.

interesting........

[billf]

My last thought on the subject: Please, please understand that this is MY reading of the rules. During the protest that my team indured, the officials also read the rules on the basis of the dictionary, and the glossary. I was lucky, I guess. And, yes, the protest was centered on the same subject. In fact, I always thought the new wording was as a result of the protest resolution. Could be wrong, however.

Good racing.

Bill

[JeffYoung]

I'd be careful with this one. I think if a steward sees any air getting into the engine bay -- whether it is technically going into the intake track or not -- because of a smaller radiator you are going to have an issue.

[shwah]

Where does the rule not allow the new radiator and it's attached ducting to not fill any openings created by the radiator change? Of course failing to do so will have a dramatic impact on cooling efficiency, so going with a smaller radiator that sees less pressure differential in front/behind may cause other issues....

[billf]

I'd be careful with this one. I think if a steward sees any air getting into the engine bay -- whether it is technically going into the intake track or not -- because of a smaller radiator you are going to have an issue.

I appreciate your thought, but, again I wonder where the rules state you can block off the openings left by the smaller radiator? Using the broad concept of "radiator", it can be done.

However, it seems that the problem was not on the mind of those who wrote the rule as it now reads.

Good racing.

Bill

[shwah]

For some reason I thought you HAD to block any extra opening. You are correct, no requirement there, just a caveat that you cannot duct air to the engine.

You absolutely can cover any opening you like with your 'any radiator' that is specifically allowed. My 'any radiator' includes sheetmetal that does not allow air to flow around it at the front of the car. I don't see it as a broad concept of radiator at all, but a broad allowance by the rule.