A Poll Regarding the IT Rules Set

[Conover]

Come on guys, let them take off their wipers, their heater cores and their washer bottles, it'll be fun to watch them trying to figure out how to see when it rains. Let there be rain, rain, rain, rain!

The reason that the ECU rule keeps getting "trotted up". Is that it's still screwed up, it's an incomplete solution that needs to be reconsidered. Just like my letter said two years ago, if your gonna open it up open it up. In my view that should be numero uno, top priority for the ITAC/BOD.

This balogna about washer bottles and wiper blades is just a bunch of hoowey, let's keep the debates targeted on things that actually matter.

I vote no, you gotta keep that stuff, you don't like it, you go prod. You wanted to be in a national class anyway, just go prod already. It's freakin IT, understand? It's IT, you have washer bottles, you have wipers, you have haeter cores, get the hell over it! Your gonna need that shit one day, and your gonna be pissed when an itb golf walks your its junk in a rainy ecr one day.

[frnkhous]

To all those that listed line items, as cameron pointed out, why do you wanna remove hvac systems, and windshield wiper components? I can kinda go with the washerbottle, again I don't understand the fascination with being allowed to remove it for the sake of it. and I can see somebody actually using it, but I can understand allowing removal of the washer bottle and the horn. But then I get to headlight replacement and start seeing $$$. Only reason I see for allowing removal of those is weight, once you start that you got carbon fiber covers, why not allow the fenders and hood as well? I'm really shocked that almost 60% of people wanna allow the removal of more stuff. I could make my own headlight covers, remove everything on the list from my car myself if I wanted too, but I just simply don't get it. For sure I wouldn't be removing the wipers or the heatercore/blowermotor and i'm kinda baffled at the suggestion of the rest. I'm curious how many of the people asking for this have been around a racecar that didn't have one of those things in the rain. I have and you don't wanna remove them.

[matt batson]

To all those that listed line items, as cameron pointed out, why do you wanna remove hvac systems, and windshield wiper components? I can kinda go with the washerbottle, again I don't understand the fascination with being allowed to remove it for the sake of it. and I can see somebody actually using it, but I can understand allowing removal of the washer bottle and the horn. But then I get to headlight replacement and start seeing $$$. Only reason I see for allowing removal of those is weight, once you start that you got carbon fiber covers, why not allow the fenders and hood as well? I'm really shocked that almost 60% of people wanna allow the removal of more stuff. I could make my own headlight covers, remove everything on the list from my car myself if I wanted too, but I just simply don't get it. For sure I wouldn't be removing the wipers or the heatercore/blowermotor and i'm kinda baffled at the suggestion of the rest. I'm curious how many of the people asking for this have been around a racecar that didn't have one of those things in the rain. I have and you don't wanna remove them.

I may be mistaken, but there wouldnt be anything in the rules that says you HAVE to remove those items...right?

If you have a hard time making weight, I guarantee removing some of these items would be cheaper than super lightweight wheels.
And this is supposed to be a class we can run cheaply in and still be competitive.

I have non-functioning wipers. I run rain ex if it rains. My heater doesnt work either.

It rained for much of my drivers school back in 04 at moroso and I pretty much dominated without either.

[jjjanos]

I may be mistaken, but there wouldnt be anything in the rules that says you HAVE to remove those items...right?

If you allow it, then the front-runners will need to do it to maintain position. It's an arms race. Someone builds a dreadnaught and everyone needs to build one just to maintain parity.

[matt batson]

sorry, but I dont see the big deal. If the front runners want to remove the stuff they can. If they want to keep their windshield washer bottles or motors, they can.
And I dont see how this will cost anybody any money or frustration.


Now, you wanna talk arms race, then we can talk about the ECU and final drive allowances that never should have made it into the rulebook. Talk about costing the front runners money...

[lateapex911]

sorry, but I dont see the big deal. If the front runners want to remove the stuff they can. If they want to keep their windshield washer bottles or motors, they can.
And I dont see how this will cost anybody any money or frustration.


Now, you wanna talk arms race, then we can talk about the ECU and final drive allowances that never should have made it into the rulebook. Talk about costing the front runners money...

Well, we could just not allow ECU cars in.....

[seckerich]

sorry, but I dont see the big deal. If the front runners want to remove the stuff they can. If they want to keep their windshield washer bottles or motors, they can.
And I dont see how this will cost anybody any money or frustration.


Now, you wanna talk arms race, then we can talk about the ECU and final drive allowances that never should have made it into the rulebook. Talk about costing the front runners money...

You have only been around IT for a short period Matt. All those rules were in place when you started. You read the rules and made a decision to play. There is a balancing act between letting drivers change enough to be excited about a class and allowing so much it gets out of hand. Washer bottle is no big deal unless it covers a big hole in front of the air intake. Then it is not such a small deal. Every seemingly simple rule change has unintended consequences. Now you have to go fix what WAS NOT BROKEN.

[frnkhous]

No, in the case of the hvac and wiper parts I would not remove them unless i'd exhausted every other means of getting the car within 50lbs of weight. The problem I see is it will become accpetable to class cars a weights based on achieving a weight with these items removed. A fully prepped car is still fully prepped. You guys simply want to add farther to what that includes when it comes to removing things. I get the washer bottle(not sure why it is so hotly desired for removal even the argument that it is hard to get for a few seems weak when you figure how few people it really affects in a year) but I undertand removing it. The other items i'll argue you simply haven't been around road racing long enough if you don't see the serious downsides to the removal. No you won't have to remove them but how long before people cry because they scca doesn't black flag all so that people can come in and get wipers etc. No thankyou, these are production based vehicles and if it doesn't make it safer to remove it leave it alone.

The Ecu rule is a silly argument, If you don't like it then I think you should be ok with the idea of a completely stock carb with needles as delivered on your datsun, as well as completely stock ignition controls. NO changing weights, pickups points etc. Otherwise your already getting many of the benefits of the ecu rule.

[lateapex911]

I may be mistaken, but there wouldnt be anything in the rules that says you HAVE to remove those items...right?

If you have a hard time making weight, I guarantee removing some of these items would be cheaper than super lightweight wheels.
And this is supposed to be a class we can run cheaply in and still be competitive.

Lightweight wheels will return 8X the performance advantage of a 3 pound windshield wiper motor in the dry.


And when you are racing on a slimy, drying, oiled down track in the rain, the 3 pound wiper motor will reduce you lap times bey a measurable amount, maybe a second or more.

I speak from experience...of two days ago, when my wiper motor failed. I was pissed that no store had one until Monday.

Again, it's an arms race.