LRP incident tuesday

[BruceG]

I was at LRP Tues to watch the 1936 Auto Union 12cyl get fired up(whole other story and it will be at LRP this weekend for the vintage). There was a Club at Lime Rock track day and one of the club members(to remain unnamed, even though he was driving the spec miata I sold him...LOL) managed to spin at the end of no name. Not quite sure how one does that, as I have spun in other areas at LRP but never there! Anyway...poor Sam Posey was right behind him in his wonderful restored club ford, with no place to go but into the wall. They took Sam away in the ambulance but he is ok I heard...the car is totalled!!

I think some of the club members style themselves as racers(like me...ar...ar) but there are never more than about 5 cars on the track at anyone time(envy,envy) so it doesn't appear to be a problem with racing room. The spec pinata driver had no damage to himself or his car!

[StephF]

Um, at the risk of using an over used phrase, shit happens. Maybe there was some oil or debris that he found, maybe driver brain fade, maybe tires gave up, maybe something mechanical, who knows?
I spent over ten years flagging Tuesday test days at LRP, and I saw a fair amount of really serious shunts happen. You get a mix of cars and skill levels, some serious closing speeds, people shaking down cars that may not be 100% and you have a recipe for stuff like that. I saw it happen with 20+ cars on track and I saw it with 3 cars on track.
I came away with a healthy respect for watching my mirrors, watching the other drivers out with me and watching my ass. Tune and test days can be much more dicey than an actual race groupings.

[BruceG]

Um, at the risk of using an over used phrase, shit happens. Maybe there was some oil or debris that he found, maybe driver brain fade, maybe tires gave up, maybe something mechanical, who knows?
I spent over ten years flagging Tuesday test days at LRP, and I saw a fair amount of really serious shunts happen. You get a mix of cars and skill levels, some serious closing speeds, people shaking down cars that may not be 100% and you have a recipe for stuff like that. I saw it happen with 20+ cars on track and I saw it with 3 cars on track.
I came away with a healthy respect for watching my mirrors, watching the other drivers out with me and watching my ass. Tune and test days can be much more dicey than an actual race groupings.

No Test and tune last tuesday, Stephanie...The Club at Lime Rock
track day...Sam is an honorary member. These members rack up some serious track time(lucky dogs)

[StephF]

Still going to be the same kind of situation. Stuff...happens. Sorry to hear Sam stuffed his car, but that's the risk we all take. I haven't been there to see the "Club Days"...not sure I want to. Too many memories of LRP from back in 'the day'.

[BruceG]

Still going to be the same kind of situation. Stuff...happens. Sorry to hear Sam stuffed his car, but that's the risk we all take. I haven't been there to see the "Club Days"...not sure I want to. Too many memories of LRP from back in 'the day'.

Sam had surgery on his hand yesterday. Must have hit the steering wheel hard!

[dave parker]

I will ask the question since no one else has. Why were closed wheel and open wheel cars on the track at the same time?
Has the "Club at Lime Rock" forgotten one of the primary tenants of auto racing, Thou shalt not run open wheel and closed wheel cars together?

Of course that does not even address running spec pinatas with any other cars, but that is a different issue.

I hope that Mr. Posey is ok and recovers fully.
cheers
dave parker

[BruceG]

I will ask the question since no one else has. Why were closed wheel and open wheel cars on the track at the same time?
Has the "Club at Lime Rock" forgotten one of the primary tenants of auto racing, Thou shalt not run open wheel and closed wheel cars together?

Of course that does not even address running spec pinatas with any other cars, but that is a different issue.

I hope that Mr. Posey is ok and recovers fully.
cheers
dave parker

Same sh@t, different day as running SRF'S with Formula VEE's down south in SCCA. Really dumb idea

[lateapex911]

Odd that Sam would be out in an FF with other closed wheel club cars. Actually, open wheel cars aren't a common sight at the club days I've been to. The club has a talented instructor on staff, and many members drive lots of laps. Yes, spinning an SM takes a bit of work, I've found the cars to be supremely forgiving.

Stephs right, it's driving cars at the limit, things happen. Bruce, be careful what you say, a spin into the uphill is easy. I've been 40 degrees sideways there.

[BruceG]

Odd that Sam would be out in an FF with other closed wheel club cars. Actually, open wheel cars aren't a common sight at the club days I've been to. The club has a talented instructor on staff, and many members drive lots of laps. Yes, spinning an SM takes a bit of work, I've found the cars to be supremely forgiving.

Stephs right, it's driving cars at the limit, things happen. Bruce, be careful what you say, a spin into the uphill is easy. I've been 40 degrees sideways there.

Sounds like I've been lucky at the end of no name, Jake!

[dave parker]

Group,
So I am trying to figure something out. I had posted in this thread several days ago the question as to why open wheel and closed wheel cars were on track at the same time when this incident happened. I received a private message in my inbox from someone I have never met and do not know. I responded to this message and have not gotten a response back. As always I have several questions:
1. Who is this guy?
2. Why is he sending me a private message rather than stating his opinion publicly?
3. What is his axe to grind and why is he wanting to grind it with me?

I have included his private message and my response.

Thoughts?

cheers
dave parker
Interesting idea, Dave, but where is it written down? Even more to the point, is it part of the rules for The Club at Lime Rock?

I think it's a bit like the pot calling the kettle black if you're calling on an SCCA background to point a finger here. Have you looked at the upgraded FIA regulations for cars and tracks that would make a great deal of what we do subject to the very same disapproval?

Short version: One of the reasons there are so many other organizations in the U.S. is because of the attitude you express here, which has been translated into a holier than thou mantra from SCCA members.

We, the SCCA, have enough problems dealing with our own issues without calling out others.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dave parker
I will ask the question since no one else has. Why were closed wheel and open wheel cars on the track at the same time?
Has the "Club at Lime Rock" forgotten one of the primary tenants of auto racing, Thou shalt not run open wheel and closed wheel cars together?

Of course that does not even address running spec pinatas with any other cars, but that is a different issue.

I hope that Mr. Posey is ok and recovers fully.
cheers
dave parker


Originally Posted by Peter Olivola
Interesting idea, Dave, but where is it written down? Even more to the point, is it part of the rules for The Club at Lime Rock?

I think it's a bit like the pot calling the kettle black if you're calling on an SCCA background to point a finger here. Have you looked at the upgraded FIA regulations for cars and tracks that would make a great deal of what we do subject to the very same disapproval?

Short version: One of the reasons there are so many other organizations in the U.S. is because of the attitude you express here, which has been translated into a holier than thou mantra from SCCA members.

We, the SCCA, have enough problems dealing with our own issues without calling out others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dave parker
I will ask the question since no one else has. Why were closed wheel and open wheel cars on the track at the same time?
Has the "Club at Lime Rock" forgotten one of the primary tenants of auto racing, Thou shalt not run open wheel and closed wheel cars together?

Of course that does not even address running spec pinatas with any other cars, but that is a different issue.

I hope that Mr. Posey is ok and recovers fully.
cheers
dave parker


Mr. Olivola,
I asked the question in an open forum because I have no knowledge on the "Club at Lime Rock" rules.
I agree that there is no "protocol" for grouping of cars however, have not enough people paid the ultimate price that can be paid (one's own life) because of groupings of dissimilar cars?
I double checked my post to make sure that I made NO mention of SCCA rules or the SCCA GCR. I did not.
I have not read the FIA rules in two years, I will make sure that I do so in the next week.
I have in my racing career however, raced under FIA rules, NASA rules, EMRA rules, PCA rules and NASCAR rules. Each carries its own quirks and pitfalls. I also refuse to point fingers. I asked the questions to gain knowledge, aid the discovery process, and have the foresight and common sense to avoid making the same kinds of mistakes in the future.

The reasons for other sanctioning bodies other than the SCCA is myriad, attitude(s) is only a small part of that equation. I would also agree that SCCA has many problems, most of which are brought onto the SCCA by its members (of which I am a proud one) and its leaders. Many of the others are so germain, that only a complete dissolution will get rid of them. That is not my fight.

I am not calling anyone out, I was asking a question. If asking a question is a problem, then why did not the moderators step in and close the thread and thereby stop the discussion?

We have never met. I would hope that when we do meet face to face it will be with the understanding that we share an interest in the same pasttime and that the pasttime outlast us, and many others and continue in for many years to come.

Thoughts?
Best regards
dave parker

[jumbojimbo]

I would say that you can claim you are just asking questions and gathering info, but even though these have question marks they are statements.

I will ask the question since no one else has. Why were closed wheel and open wheel cars on the track at the same time?
Has the "Club at Lime Rock" forgotten one of the primary tenants of auto racing, Thou shalt not run open wheel and closed wheel cars together?

I read that as: "Club at Lime Rock" has forgotten one of the primary tenants...

Example: "What are you, are freaking idiot?" is not an attempt to gather info.

Edit: I have no dog in the fight, I'm just commenting on the passive-agressive language and how that doesn't mean you aren't making a STATEMENT when you say you are asking a question.

[dave parker]

Jim
Thanks, for taking the time to post.
"Example: "What are you, are freaking idiot?" is not an attempt to gather info." Yes, apparently I am.
I am going to go hide under my rock now.
cheers
dave parker

[Bill Miller]

Hey Dave, ask Matt Weisberg what he thinks of Mr. Olivola.