Big Picture of IT - Share Your Opinions

[tnord]

You're making even less sense than usual.

and there's the problem. you can't figure out that we basically agree.

[Bill Miller]

and there's the problem. you can't figure out that we basically agree.

You and I agree? Ok, who are you, and how did you hack Travis' account? Seriously, just so I'm clear on this, I think that IT being a RO-eligible category would be a good thing for the club in general, and IT specifically. And you agree w/ this? If that's the case, why have you been running your mouth and insulting me?

[tnord]

You and I agree? Ok, who are you, and how did you hack Travis' account? Seriously, just so I'm clear on this, I think that IT being a RO-eligible category would be a good thing for the club in general, and IT specifically. And you agree w/ this? If that's the case, why have you been running your mouth and insulting me?

[in my best 5yo voice]
you started it
[/5yo voice]

i don't agree that going national is a good idea, we're just looking at the same set of circumstances from completely different perspectives and end up at different conclusions.

PS - i still think you're a douche.

[Bill Miller]

[in my best 5yo voice]
you started it
[/5yo voice]

i don't agree that going national is a good idea, we're just looking at the same set of circumstances from completely different perspectives and end up at different conclusions.

I guess you missed that day in school. Different conclusions != agreeing.

PS - i still think you're a douche.

And here I thought you didn't care anymore.

[tnord]

good one Bill.

ya know what I see? and this is just a theory......

I see a guy who like to complain that people aren't seing the "big picture" and are being "me-centric" when saying that going national is bad for the class because of increased levels in time, money, and effort (as you outlined yourself).....when really it's YOU who is the selfish one. I see a "mid-pack" guy who is excited at the prospect of the front-runners leaving for nationals so he can maybe go "win" a regional against half as many cars as he used to run against so he can feel special.

but maybe i'm wrong.....it's just a guess. i admit i haven't a clue who you are, and haven't received an answer when i asked.

it actually IS possible for two people to look at the same set of facts and come to different conclusions. I'm fine with that, it happens all the time. agree to disagree, whatever. you apparantly struggle with it.

[Bill Miller]

I'll give you credit Travis, you sure do have a vivid imagination. As far as what I see, it's a guy that doesn't have the intellectual capacity to debate an issue on its merits, and has to resort to playground name-calling and foul language. I also see a guy that likes to shoot his mouth off, but doesn't have the integrity to admit he was wrong when he has been clearly called on something. You've shown that you've got nothing constructive to add to this discussion, and as a courtesy to the other forum members (who I assume are beyond tired of this by this point), I'm done with you.

/edit

Steve,

I'm not sure I follow you. I feel comfortable in saying that there are some IT efforts out there that would probably not see much (if any) increase in their budgets were they shooting for a RO trophy. Possibly some increased travel expenses because of the silly out of Division requirements.

One of the other things that has occurred to me while reading some of the responses, is that some people just don't want to deal w/ the things that come along w/ increased competition (or to be consistent w/ my earlier post, higher competition density). They want to only spend as much, and run as hard, as they have to, to be at the front, in their own little world. Maybe their egos can't deal w/ the possible reality that they're not as good a driver as they think they are, or their car isn't as close to a 10/10ths build as they think it is.

As someone said, for a lot of folks this is a fun hobby. But others are very serious about their programs (see earlier comments about racers being competitive). Why should those that are serious about their programs have to pick a different category if they'd really like to measure themselves against the best in their class? If you're like that guy from the PNW that was winning w/ a poorly prepared car, against marginal competition, and you think that you're really a champion because you won your own Regional title, and never ventured out to see what else was out there, you're just kidding yourself. In my mind, it's really no different than the guys that immediately think that they guy that beat them is cheating.

Every other category listed in the GCR gives people an option of where they want to race, why should IT be any different? I think people are attracted to IT because of the package that it offers. You've got a pretty wide choice of cars in each class that have the potential to run at the front (provided that you're willing to dedicate the resources to get there). That's due largely to the efforts of the ITAC. You've got some development opportunity, but don't have to go as far as building 14:1 hand-grenade motors and developing custom suspensions, and you can still get in the game for not a whole lot of money (but probably won't be at the front). My personal feeling is that were IT to be RO-eligible, it would be the most popular, and successful sedan class in the SCCA. Many people have talked about IT as a destination. I think that's a good thing. To tell them (IT racers) that if they want to really measure themselves against the cream of the crop, that they need to go elsewhere, is in my mind, truly selfish and me-centric.

[tnord]

doesn't have the integrity to admit he was wrong when he has been clearly called on something..

and what exactly have you "called" me on?

I also find it quite amusing that I'M the one who said i basically agree with your assertation of how the change would play out, I just don't agree with your conclusion that going National is a good thing....yet YOU are the one who just won't give it up.....then says something like the above quote.

[quadzjr]

Why should those that are serious about their programs have to pick a different category if they'd really like to measure themselves against the best in their class?

To tell them (IT racers) that if they want to really measure themselves against the cream of the crop, that they need to go elsewhere, is in my mind, truly selfish and me-centric.

When we won the regional championship in ITA in 2003, we went to the ARRC, and qualified something like 5/6th? and had an on track accident that ended our day early. Even without the accident we weren't going to win. We know that, our car wasn't prepped enough, and never being on the track had it's role as well. no ego bruised, no biggie, try again next year (or when new car gets done .

The point that you made that that we need another championship to measure if your the cream of the crop. I believe is somewhat redudent. I think that your argument holds a bit of weight for the fact that the ARRC is tailored for the east coast, and for people on the west coast, it is not as fessible of an event to attend due to the increased travel.

Nationals have June Sprints and the Run Offs

ItT has ITfest, and the ARRC.