bolt in cage question - welding

[Speed Raycer]

Again, pics will clear up a lot. Yes, you can weld a bolt in together.

[karter74]

There are Stubs that attach to the main hoop and then the front down tubes and side bars attach to those. In this picture you can see the sleeves. Under the sleeves the the two bars but up against each other.

This is not my cage but a pictue I found assembled

[tac911t]

When I had my car inspected this year, the tech inspector mentioned that the bolted sleeves would need to be welded to the bars at some point in the future.

Has anyone heard of this change being proposed for a future date?

[tom91ita]

my cage started life as an Autopower bolt in and i had visions of wanting to remove some day at first. and i did not have any welding skills or friends with them, etc.

i have since added door bars and some welding of the sleeves to the cage while leaving the bolts in place.

my ITB crx si has ~ 150#'s of ballast in it and moving 5-15 #'s of bolts and sleeves down to the floor beside me has not been a high priority.

but if starting from scratch, i would weld the cage in and not bother with the sleeves and bolts. a bolt-in cage is essentially a welded cage that was assembled and then cut in strategic places and then sold with sleeves to allow it to be re-assembled in the car.

the headache with trying to do a retro on my cage now is that i no longer have good access to some points that need to be welded. there are various threads around about how to assemble a cage and how/when to move it to get access to the welds.

for instance, cut 2" holes in the floor to "drop" the main hoop through the floor to tip back the hoop and allow the A-pillar hoops and hoop above the windshield to be welded 360° around with more ease, etc.

good luck regardless of which path you pick.

[Tak]

Without the rule book in front of me, I believe roll cages are required to use the same size tubing everywhere. The sleeves will fall foul of that. Will anyone care? I doubt it.
Personally I do not like welding straight around a tube--I much prefer "fishmouth" joints--the longer weld is stronger, and less likely to fail catastrophically in an impact (the peaks and valleys of the fishmouth help prevent crack propagation along the entire weld).
Why not do it right and cut out the side bar attachments and bend up/weld in new single piece side bars. Gives you the opportunity to triangulate while you're at it...

Tak
#29 ITA SFR SCCA

[anthony1k]

Personally I do not like welding straight around a tube--I much prefer "fishmouth" joints--the longer weld is stronger, and less likely to fail catastrophically in an impact (the peaks and valleys of the fishmouth help prevent crack propagation along the entire weld).

I agree 100%. Bad idea not to use sleeves. Aside from the safety concern, the tubes underneath the sleeves do not perfectly butt up against each other. You'll have to weld tubing to bridge them together. It will be a royal PITA.

My cage started as an Autopower bolt-in and over time it has been reinforced and welded in several places. My suggestion is to install it as a bolt-in (as it was designed) and weld the sleeves in place for added rigidity.

Good luck

[Speed Raycer]

Sleeves are not bad. They are used quite often in structural repair and IIRC, there's a diagram in the GCR about sleeving.

If you're concerned about the length of the weld, then notch the sleeve on both ends with 60 deg. notches. That plus rossette/plug welds will make a very strong joint.

As far as the same size tubing requirement, all required tubes must meet the minimum requirement. Sleeves typically do not make the tube thinner