MARRS ITB/ITC say hello to ITS

[erlrich]

Bill, the ITB/ITS mix works well at many tracks. If ITS runs away from ITB it works out great. However last time it was done at Summit it was very frustrating to the ITB drivers due to constant interaction between the groups. I looked at MARRS 5 results from this year and over half the ITS field is running ITB lap times. Maybe those guys will speed up a few seconds by next race and stay away from the ITB front runners. I guess we will find out.

In all fairness (and coming from one of the ITA drivers who was bitching about ITS drivers last year), I don't think this is about lap times. Yes, half the ITS cars at M5 were running ITB times, but half the ITS field = 4 cars. If you look at the MARRS 4 results you'll see that fully half of the IT7 cars were running lap times at or below the ITB leader's times - a total of 3 cars. Over half of the IT7 field finished behind the 2 ITB leaders - 4 cars. Have there been cries to get those IT7 cars out of the group?

The real issue IMO is some of the ITS driver's attitudes; there is no excuse for a 4th, 5th, or lower place car in an 8 car field to be racing the leaders in the "slower" class. I may be wrong, but I don't get the sense that the ITS drivers are as close knit a group as we have in ITA or ITB, and so there might not be the sort of peer pressure you would hope for. Maybe a 'come to Jesus' meeting with the DR and a few stewards would help...who knows. I hope this move doesn't end up screwing up the ITB class too. IMO those drivers who are talking about quitting MARRS because of this move - before they even run one event - should take a reality check. Unless you race in SM or SSM you're going to have to deal with other classes.

As far as the split starts; I was under the impression that any group who felt it was necessary could request a split start this year and it would almost always be granted. Is that not the case?

[no FI]

Where are the IT7 cars going to start, with the SRX7's or with ITA?

[shwah]

Good luck sorting this out guys.

ITB ITS can work well, and did pretty much at IT Fest last year. Here in CenDiv we are together all the time (along with ITR,A,C), and while you might think that slow S cars would not be a problem on a long track, I have only had real issue with one at Road America. The guy stayed in front of bedside and behind me the entire race while P1 pulled away then entire race. So no a long track won't 'fix' the problem.

While I understand this is a reality of multi class racing, I do sometimes wish more awareness existed among drivers and corner workers of who is racing for the lead in a given class.

[jjjanos]

In all fairness (and coming from one of the ITA drivers who was bitching about ITS drivers last year), I don't think this is about lap times. Yes, half the ITS cars at M5 were running ITB times, but half the ITS field = 4 cars. If you look at the MARRS 4 results you'll see that fully half of the IT7 cars were running lap times at or below the ITB leader's times - a total of 3 cars. Over half of the IT7 field finished behind the 2 ITB leaders - 4 cars. Have there been cries to get those IT7 cars out of the group?

Well no, because WDCR doesn't normally move classes mid-year, so what would be the point?

The real issue IMO is some of the ITS driver's attitudes; there is no excuse for a 4th, 5th, or lower place car in an 8 car field to be racing the leaders in the "slower" class.

Bingo. For example, last year I was running in an ITB-ITC-ITB-ITC group. I was 2nd ITB car (7th place IT and the two ITC cars were going for the lead. It was going to take me a couple of laps to get by the leading ITC and then it would take a couple of laps to get by 6th place in ITB... so I pointed a somewhat slower ITC car by me as we went by S/F. I wasn't willing to FUBAR their race for the slim possibility of picking up a meaningless 6th.

IMO those drivers who are talking about quitting MARRS because of this move - before they even run one event - should take a reality check. Unless you race in SM or SSM you're going to have to deal with other classes.

I think opposition has less to do with multi-class racing and more to do with process. ITB-ITS can work, especially given the light ITS turnout. To make this work we need

1. A split-start to ensure that the slower ITS cars do not interject themselves in the midst of the ITB lead battles.
2. Slower ITB cars showing courtesy and situational awareness when being lapped by the ITS leaders.
3. ITS leaders being aware of the closing speeds they will have on the slower C and B cars.
4. Slower ITS cars showing courtesy and situational awareness when/if being overtaken by faster ITB cars.

As far as the split starts; I was under the impression that any group who felt it was necessary could request a split start this year and it would almost always be granted. Is that not the case?

Depends on the Operating and Chief Steward. Historically, DC Region stewards have had a strong bias against split starts out of a fear that the first pack will catch the back of the second group before it gets the green - it nearly happened this past weekend on Saturday.

I know that in the past, they've required 100% agreement and, even then, rarely granted the request. There was even one instance where the drivers were told they were getting a split start and then found out on the grid that the request had been denied. That's why the split starts for specific groups are written into the supps.

[jjjanos]

The ITB - ITS grouping is a done deal. Those upset about it can either sit out or try to make this work. As angry as I am about the way this was done, I've accepted it. Now, we've got to see about making it work.

ITB drivers need to contact Patrick and have him request a split start for our group.

His contact info can be found at http://www.wdcr-scca.org/LinkClick.a...id=57&mid=2825

The B racing has been way too good this year for people to sit out if we can make this work.

[steve b]

I ran an MR2 with ITA/ITS/ITR last year (as a rookie) so believe me, I know a thing or two about being lapped.

I'll go along with whatever the other ITB drivers want regarding the split start, but just consider this. Based on fastest laps, it seems the faster ITS cars will start in front of the leading ITB cars and will probably NOT lap them. A split start will assure that they do get lapped.

I guess the question is, do you want to risk a couple slow ITS cars in your race early, or a couple fast ITS cars in your race late?

Split start or not, I think a group driver's meeting should be in order and without pointing fingers at any particular group, just remind everyone to consider what position they are racing for vs. the positions the cars around them are racing for.

I'm still far enough back that I don't really care. I think the leaders should decide.

[jjjanos]

I'll go along with whatever the other ITB drivers want regarding the split start, but just consider this. Based on fastest laps, it seems the faster ITS cars will start in front of the leading ITB cars and will probably NOT lap them. A split start will assure that they do get lapped.

I just ran some really rough numbers. No split start, and pretty much everyone except the very front of ITB gets lapped, back gets lapped twice. Split start and everybody gets lapped once and the back gets lapped three times.

I guess the question is, do you want to risk a couple slow ITS cars in your race early, or a couple fast ITS cars in your race late?

Based on what Charlie said happened before and looking at lap times, I think the front half of the ITS class will be gone at the start, but the back one-half are running lap times slower than the front of the B field. I think what will happen is that the green will fly, the ITS HP will put them in front of the ITB cars and then they'll be slower than the leading pack of ITBs. There's also a nice pack of ITB cars that run as a second group that might have an ITS car among them too.

I spent a year in a midpack ITC car with rear ITB cars. It's incredibly frustrating to watch your race disappear while a HP driver running alone takes a defensive line in the carousel lap after lap. If you carry enough speed through 10, you can use the draft to be close enough to outbrake at Turn 1, but I think the HP difference between ITB and ITS won't allow that.

[dickita15]

The advantage of a split start is that it separates you from someone running the same lap time as you but who is faster in different places which can be very frustrating. With the split start you should only encounter cars from another class if they are significantly faster or slower than you so the inconvenience should only be for a corner or two instead of lap after lap.