MARRS ITB/ITC say hello to ITS

[Andy Bettencourt]

I don't have a dog in this fight but I generally think it's better to have classes with MORE performance difference in the same group, than less difference. It didn't stop a couple of S cars from being a pain in the butt for the B guys at the 'fest but at least everyone knew what was up.

K

I agree. My next races is ITR, ITS and ITA...gonna suck for me but we shall see!

[mlytle]

marrs did have this combo before and it worked fine. its cars should corner FASTER than ITB cars.

there is no perfect match of classes, everything is about compromise. this combo is far better/safer than what was being done...ITS running with GT1/GTA/AS.

good move....if i do say so myself.

notice we didn't move ITR into the group. left them(me) in Big Bore.

marshall
MARRS ITS/R driver rep

[nip_mr2]

Was it considered to move them into ITA? Our run group a 5 different classes now. Most of the ITS run the same time as our front running ITB.

[Ron Earp]

Most of the ITS run the same time as our front running ITB.

Is this true and if so how is it possible?

[joeg]

No big deal. As long as we keep closed wheel with closed wheel and DOT rubber with DOT rubber, no problem.

You have to try to keep those race groups evenly filled.

You can even throw AS and all the other DOT rubber classes into the mix.

[SATURNRACER]

I have never seen an ITB keep up even with the slowest ITS car noway! running ITS with ITA is a close match but ITB lol someone is dreaming!

[erlrich]

Is this true and if so how is it possible?

Let's just say we have a few...er...under-developed ITS cars in our region. Realistically, out of 6 - 10 ITS car that show up for any given race, about half of those run times that might put them in the way of the front ITB cars. I think if they would just ask for a split start with IT7 & ITS starting ahead of ITB they would be fine. The other three classes in that group - SSB, SSC, and ITC - usually only field one or two cars each (if any), so they don't really figure into the issue.

[chewy8000]

Nice another group change with absolutely no input from the drivers. This format worked well at NJ on Thunderbolt (long straights) but I see this being a real problem at Summit Point. I've discussed this with a few people and decided to either bag the rest of the WDCR season or head for the PRO-IT series at New jersey and maybe finish with the ARRC. Not a good way to increase numbers when their already low in our region? I wouldn't be surprised if MARRS 7 is light. Sorry guys but I don't agree with this format.

[mlytle]

no input from drivers? huh? the club racing committee that made this decision is made up of the DRIVERS REPS FROM EACH CLASS. you elected the folks that are making these calls!

[jjjanos]

I've discussed this with a few people and decided to either bag the rest of the WDCR season

I concur. I think the MARRS ITB drivers need to consider staying home for the rest of the year.

[Terry Hanushek]

Dave

Thats right you heard it here first, the powers that be have chosen to move the ITS class into the ITB/ITC group.

This revised grouping should work well as long as both groups respect the each other. It certainly helps ITS to get out of the Big Bore group where they were like an abused stepchild. As Andy observed, these classes play well up North. One benefit of this classing is that there tends to be an implicit split grid with the ITS cars qualifying in front of the ITB cars - allowing the lead groups of both classes to run by themselves for most / all of the race.

If you want to get a taste of this new grouping come on up to MARRS 6 (MARRS - NARRC Lightning Challenge) at NJMP where ITS and ITB were already scheduled to be together.


Marshall

notice we didn't move ITR into the group. left them(me) in Big Bore.

If you want to escape the Big Bore wars, you can come along to MARRS 6 too as ITR is grouped with ITS and ITB.

At the beginning of the year, the Jersey Racing Board decided to extend our NJMP summer regionals to nine race groups to provide logical, competitor-friendly groupings. Part of this approach was grouping IT and Showroom Stock cars by themselves without any slick tire classes. We hope that you will enjoy these race groups.

Terry

BTW - MARRS 8 (MARRS - NARRC Rematch) on Thunderbolt in August will have the same groups.

[rthiele]

Terry it is great to hear that ITR is not separated from ITS at NARRC/MARRS NJMP! Thanks for confirming.

[jjjanos]

This revised grouping should work well as long as both groups respect the each other.

Terry,

That may happen. I do not expect it.

It certainly helps ITS to get out of the Big Bore group where they were like an abused stepchild.

Think of it as more akin to being sent to reform school.

One benefit of this classing is that there tends to be an implicit split grid with the ITS cars qualifying in front of the ITB cars - allowing the lead groups of both classes to run by themselves for most / all of the race.

Hardly.

The grid from the last MARRS based on qualifying times.

Outside/Inside
ITS/ITS
ITB/ITS
ITS/ITB
ITB/ITS
ITB/ITB
ITB/ITB
ITB/ITB
ITS/ITB
ITC/ITB
ITS/ITB
ITB/ITB
ITB/ITB
ITB/ITB
NULL/ITC

ITS cars are bolded. How many fasterB cars do you think they will pass on the run to Turn 1? They'll do it simply because of HP.

As a Steward who volunteers at WDCR races, are you prepared to hear unsportsmanlike protests filed and impose penalties if slower ITS cars hold-up faster ITB cars? Or will you simply say that's part of multi-class racing?

As a frequent Chief Steward at WDCR races, are you willing to give a split start or will you go all GW on us?

[jjjanos]

marrs did have this combo before and it worked fine. its cars should corner FASTER than ITB cars.

1. NO it didn't. The grouping killed ITC in this region.
2. It doesn't matter what the cars are capable of doing. What matters is what they actually do which, in 2008, was drive at mid-pack ITA speeds. Based on 2009 laptimes, one-third are now ITB cars.

there is no perfect match of classes, everything is about compromise. this combo is far better/safer than what was being done...ITS running with GT1/GTA/AS.

good move....if i do say so myself.

A major reason ITS was put in Big Bore was because it was the group where ITS had the least potential to do damage to anyone else. They earned a grouping with Big Bore.

Based on the 2008 ITS performance, there was a failure to appreciate the courtesy required in multi-class racing. They interposed themselves in non-ITS battles for position; they used their greater HP to walk away from so-called slower cars at the start and and then parked their cars in the corners, holding up the so-called slower cars.

The Big Bore cars don't have that problem. They have the legs and the cornering to get by the situationally impaired.

As it stands now, based on fast lap times from the 3 Summit Point MARRS events, there's going to be DFL ITS cars right in the middle both the ITB class fight and the second pack of ITB cars.

Great job guys.

notice we didn't move ITR into the group. left them(me) in Big Bore.

Which is a class that I don't think anyone would have a problem running with.

[Charlie Broring]

marrs did have this combo before and it worked fine. its cars should corner FASTER than ITB cars.

there is no perfect match of classes, everything is about compromise. this combo is far better/safer than what was being done...ITS running with GT1/GTA/AS.

good move....if i do say so myself.

notice we didn't move ITR into the group. left them(me) in Big Bore.

marshall
MARRS ITS/R driver rep

Marshall, Yes, MARRS grouped ITS with ITB a few years ago and from the front runner ITB perspective it SUCKED BIG TIME. Every race the ITS back markers would blast down the straight and park in the corners right in the middle of the ITB race. Did I say every race? Maybe things have changed but the history of this combo at Summit Point is very bad for ITB.

Also, two days prior to the meeting where this was decided we were racing at Summit. You were there Mr ITS rep. as was Patrick the ITB Driver Rep. Yet no mention of this proposed change was made at that time for driver input. It appears to some ITB drivers that we were blindsided at the meeting.

My butt is still sore.

Charlie Broring