If you were king for a day?

[shwah]

I've driven early 90s ABS cars, and current generation Porsche's and everything in between ABS wise on the track and no way no how would I want a 'typical' IT car ABS system to race with. Those early systems will not let you get the most out of a good setup. The Porsche stuff is another story - just awesome. The Z4 is alright, and would probably be helpful, but nothing ever felt right like the P car.

[seckerich]

ITR was the perfect opportunity to be forward thinking about newer technology without effecting current IT cars.

ABS MAY be disconnected would solve the problem you have.

Many of the current IT cars are going to age out just like the foundation cars of Production. The 12A motor is on its death bed already, and many of the most popular IT cars are getting harder to find factory parts for. This thread is a good place to bring out some ideas with some light hearted posts. What I would like to see is some input on a 10 year plan for IT. We say that rules that require removal of items add cost for all because you HAVE to do them, yet newer cars have more and more of these banned items.

More and more drivers are selling other cars to join IT because of cost and the number of opportunities to race on a given weekend. We need to continue to be the most attractive option for new racers and old.

PS. King Kirk is just a little freaky.

[MMiskoe]

Maybe the ABS on a Toyota isn't designed for those kinds of speeds, but my BMW and Porsche's are.

Maybe I'm pessimistic, but I've seen a few too many ABS failures that resulted bad things. I don't even like it in my street cars. ABS primary concern is not to get the car slowed down, but to keep it aimed straight. When it gets confused it will stop stopping while it gets re-oriented.

Plus it is very hard to get a spinning car to spin off in a straight line if you can't get the wheels to lock up.


How come no one asked for a change in wording on cleaning up/removing wiring harnesses?

Could we sample fuel out of the tank instead of needing a port?

Would eliminating the requirement for DOT tires make tire choices cheaper? I've never researched it.

[ekim952522000]

I was expecting Kirk to say "when I am King aftermarket cam gears will be legal"

[tom_sprecher]

What I would like to see is some input on a 10 year plan for IT...

+1

I don't want to get too OT, but what do you guys think the next wave of popular ITA & S cars will be? Obviously I'm a car guy, but that is just one dimension of many and I really do not keep up with what the car companies produce now, let alone 5 - 10 years ago.

What would make for good candidates in either class?

[ekim952522000]

....This thread is a good place to bring out some ideas with some light hearted posts. What I would like to see is some input on a 10 year plan for IT. We say that rules that require removal of items add cost for all because you HAVE to do them, yet newer cars have more and more of these banned items.

......

It is interesting that you bring this up I often find myself looking at the older cars in IT to avoid all of the hassle that getting a newer one causes. As someone who removed the ABS from his car and ran new brake lines this is not something I think the typical new person is going to want to do.

I do think at some point IT is going to need to add the rule that "all unused wiring is allowed to be removed" considering how much "stuff" new cars come with seat heaters, navigation, etc.... I know it would add some cost to a 110% build but as we get people racing newer and newer cars racers are not going to want to have 1800ft of wire rolled up on there floor board.

[Knestis]

I was expecting Kirk to say "when I am King aftermarket cam gears will be legal"

Note to self: Delete all nice things posted about Mikey to date.

K

[ekim952522000]

Note to self: Delete all nice things posted about Mikey to date.

K

Sorry Kirk that was a low blow.

[JoshS]

+1

I don't want to get too OT, but what do you guys think the next wave of popular ITA & S cars will be? Obviously I'm a car guy, but that is just one dimension of many and I really do not keep up with what the car companies produce now, let alone 5 - 10 years ago.

What would make for good candidates in either class?

In 2008 I made a list of appropriate cars coming into IT eligiblity over the next few years:

BMW Z4 2.5
Infiniti G35
Mazda6 V6
Mazda6 4-cyl
Saturn Ion
Acura TSX
Mazda3i 2.0
Mazda3s 2.3
Mazda RX-8
Scion xA/xB
Chevy Cobalt
Ford Mustang
Scion tC
Toyota Corolla XRS
Volvo S40/V50
BMW 325i
Honda Civic Si
Mazda MX-5
Pontiac Solstice
VW Golf/Jetta/Rabbit 2.5

The 2004 variants of couple of these have already been classed since I first wrote the list. There are candidates in here for ITA, ITS, and ITR. The Scions might even work in ITB.

[seckerich]

With big O in office we might have to bring back ITD.

[Knestis]

Sorry Kirk that was a low blow.

Now THAT is funny!

No worries

K

[Duc]

As someone who removed the ABS from his car and ran new brake lines this is not something I think the typical new person is going to want to do.

Yeah that is on my to-do list, and I do not look forward to it. I need the weight loss.

I do think at some point IT is going to need to add the rule that "all unused wiring is allowed to be removed" considering how much "stuff" new cars come with seat heaters, navigation, etc.... I know it would add some cost to a 110% build but as we get people racing newer and newer cars racers are not going to want to have 1800ft of wire rolled up on there floor board.

The amount of wiring has actually diminished quite a bit with the advent of single or two wire bused networks (J1850 in GM and FORD around 96-97, CCD for DCX 98+, CAN, and a bunch of hybrid buses). This eliminated the need for home run connections except for power connections. The other thing that has improved is insulation technology.

But does not some of the "systems" that are allowed to be removed cover the wiring?

The concern for me is that to allow for maximum safety equipment (cage, good seats that are not Carbon Fiber, fire systems) and reaching minimum weight. All of these little items do add up.

D

[Z3_GoCar]

With big O in office we might have to bring back ITD.

Are you talking about the Pelosi GTxi SS/RT sport edition?

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAqPMJFaEdY[/ame]

[RedMisted]

Many of the current IT cars are going to age out just like the foundation cars of Production. The 12A motor is on its death bed already, and many of the most popular IT cars are getting harder to find factory parts for. This thread is a good place to bring out some ideas with some light hearted posts. What I would like to see is some input on a 10 year plan for IT. We say that rules that require removal of items add cost for all because you HAVE to do them, yet newer cars have more and more of these banned items.

More and more drivers are selling other cars to join IT because of cost and the number of opportunities to race on a given weekend. We need to continue to be the most attractive option for new racers and old.

On a larger scale, I wonder: "What's it gonna be like to be a car guy in 20 years?

Cars are now made standard with tons of driver-assistive devices and other "pleasure" features and accoutrements. I expect this trend to accelerate, given the regulatory environment's tendency to increasingly overstep its bounds, and society's ever-expanding love of the lawsuit and seemingly latent desire to behave more and more like inanimate objects.

I'm thinking that if I'm still going to be racing IT, I sure as hell don't want to construct a newer car that will cost me extra $$$ to gut, because of all the Mickey Mouse equipment that the automakers installed to make driving a sedentary activity. But if driver aids have a future in IT, I'd rather go race Production or Factory Five or something where I dictate my OWN fate, not some damned computer.

I think if IT is going to survive, it needs to set a strong precedent that driver skill will ALWAYS be a part of its overall philosophy. But I could be wrong in this assumption. The IT drivers of the future may be such a coddled species that they may find the idea of racing without electronic nannies to be an inane concept.

Not trying to go too far off the track, but just had to get this off my chest....

[ekim952522000]

I do like the idea of only allowing manual transmissions and no ABS for the reasons you stated to keep it about the driver, those are excellent points I had not thought about it would suck to have to buy the newest car just so you could have the best ABS/TC system in the field.

[rlward]

Heck in 20 years let make a class of motorized micro-cars. any power unit allowed, as long as it was governemt approved. I could hook my pacemaker battery to the GMC-Obama green micro motor and get up to 25 MPH on the straights, 5 MPH faster than the national speed limit on the interstates.

[Bob Roth]

1) Allow ABS, other than airbags, they are the most highly tested, most failsafe parts of a car. Considering that these cars are capable of 150 mph, I find it highly unlikely that ABS is as unsafe as some suggest. Now if it is, fine, make it optional to remove for those that think othewise. However having locked up rear ends and fronts dry and wet, if its already on the car, let me use it if I want it.
2) For power based weight adjustments, do the area under the curve plus provide some adjustment for high and low HP/liter engines. A 1 hp per liter 160 hp 1.6 Del Sol does not have the same development potential as a 0.6 hp per liter 150 hp 2.5 liter porsche. The only honda's entered in quantity in IT today are non-vtec ITA Civic's and Integra's. There's something wrong when people are building VTEC honda's for every other class of racing but SCCA IT racing.
3) Let people disable and remove power steering, same with remove non essential engine compartment stuff like wiper systems (at least in spec classes - See below)
4) Work on more single make spec classes . In the field's I am seeing, 60% of the IT cars are Spec/ITA Miata's. Like it or not IT is already a majority spec series. Accept that the future is more spec racing and not class racing. Go to Spec 944, BMW 3 series, Honda. We are approaching the end of times where there are cheap plentiful varied new cars that are very good (other than Miata's) coming into IT. Most cars are too heavy, and heck, many are ending supply of manual transmissions. Also they are just getting tough to develop into reliable, good working race cars. Rather than pit the Honda Vtecs vs BMW 3 series vs 944's leaving everybody unhappy, make them race within their own spec for their own trophies. I am not arguing about eliminating the present classes, Just add new ones using NASA templates try to grow IT fields.

I have been around to see VW rabbits, Dondge Chargers, Dodge Neon's, and CRX's be the next hot thing in IT and then wane. Someday this will also happen to Miata's. If it does and the IT committee hasn't found a next act, I don't see how IT will continue.

[lateapex911]

Work on more single make spec classes . In the field's I am seeing, 60% of the IT cars are Spec/ITA Miata's. Like it or not IT is already a majority spec series. Accept that the future is more spec racing and not class racing. Go to Spec 944, BMW 3 series, Honda. We are approaching the end of times where there are cheap plentiful varied new cars that are very good (other than Miata's) coming into IT. Most cars are too heavy, and heck, many are ending supply of manual transmissions. Also they are just getting tough to develop into reliable, good working race cars. Rather than pit the Honda Vtecs vs BMW 3 series vs 944's leaving everybody unhappy, make them race within their own spec for their own trophies. I am not arguing about eliminating the present classes, Just add new ones using NASA templates try to grow IT fields.

I have been around to see VW rabbits, Dondge Chargers, Dodge Neon's, and CRX's be the next hot thing in IT and then wane. Someday this will also happen to Miata's. If it does and the IT committee hasn't found a next act, I don't see how IT will continue.

Let's be even more simple. Have a class for every entrant.

I can't remember when a Dodge Charger was ever THE hot car in a competitive field.. Rabbits are still out there and doing well, and you should get out to the IT-Fest and the ARRC..there was this car called the CRX there. Did OK.