Fire system v. hand held extinguisher

[rhygin]

Hey folks...
I had a good set of laps at LRP last week and was pretty sure that I saw GOD as close as I would like to in the next 40 plus years...

Wow... a decent lap reqires a lot of "sucking it up" on my end... but eveyone else seem ok with the madness into west bend and the downhill... nuts...

The nuttiness got me thinking about safety stuff again as I have a great daughter who wants to see me... So...

I would appreciate any input regarding this efectiveness and benefit of a "fire system" versus a regulation minimum fire extinguisher.

fortunately most have never-ever-ever-ever-evet been used and that it a good thing!

Feedback is appreciative.
BB

[lateapex911]

I have a handheld. If I ...
..had fuel lines that ran through the interior
...had oil lines that ran through the interior
...had the need for more ballast, or
...was running a faster car that would hit the walls a lot harder

I'd get a fire system.

It's a gamble, no doubt, but I've hit some s8it in my day and fire has only been an issue once. At Lime Rock, I blew an engine in testing, and rolled to a stop on the side. Smoke entered the cockpit, so I bailed with the handheld. Turned out the heat of the exhaust (1200 degrees in the back of the header) had annoyed the grass. I rolled the car forward and stopped on the grass. No need for the extinguisher. The other time I had a bumper on fire I drove to the tech area at NHMS.

Watching pro races, it's very rare I see a time when the system approach is needed. But when it is, it really is.

Again, if any of the above conditions were met for me, I'd have one.

My personal approach has been to make sure that I'm well protected in a shunt, so, a good seat/harness and the Isaac system are my trump cards.

You'll get some varying opinions on this I bet!

[esuvee]

If I had a fire system (I don't because I agree that the risk is significantly mitigated by driving basically a street car) I would still carry my handheld. I have seen two major failures of fire systems, on one the handle broke off and on the other the line had gotten kinked. A handheld would have saved those cars.

In fact, I have very limited experience with car fires but I have never seen a fire system WORK

Alex

[MMiskoe]

I'd like to think I am in the minority when I say I have had an interior fire while on track. No fun. Had nothing to do w/ a crash, just wiring that got loose from its looms and got on the exhaust. Seeing flames coming out from under the dash on get's your attention. My car is heavy, can't make weight, but I carry a fire system.

Stay away from Halon. Works great for putting out fires, does an equally good job of starting heart attacks.

As much as you can, suppress the fire in the cockpit. Fuck the motor, the motor doesn't get burned, you do. I've had 2nd & 3rd degree burns in small areas of my hands & fingers. NOTHING hurts like a burn.

[ekim952522000]

The only thing I don't like about the fire system (which is what I have been using) is that it is the all or nothing approach. If i had the need for ballast I would probably have both.

[mbuskuhl]

I like my life and my car, so I have both handheld and on board. The on board has a nozzle in the engine compartment near the fuel rails and header, the other nozzle in the driver footwell area. The handheld is in easy reach when strapped in. I'd like a head start before the corner workers arrive.

[Ed Funk]

We've got both in two of the three cars, will probably get a hand held for the third car as well. They both have their strengths and weaknesses. Have to add ballast to all,so weight is not an issue. May have to get a 100lb hand held for Stephs B car when it's ready!

[jjjanos]

I would appreciate any input regarding this efectiveness and benefit of a "fire system" versus a regulation minimum fire extinguisher.

IMO, places where money probably would be spent for a greater reduction in risk...

1. Do you have a head and neck restraint system? You're far more likely to snap/injure your neck then burn to death in your car.
2. What's your weight? If you are overweight, you are far more likely to die of a heart attack then burn in your car. You are far more likely to die of a heart attack while racing your car than burn in your car. Buy a weight loss and an exercise program. In fact, do it even if you aren't over weight. You are far less likely to have a heart attack if you exercise, but first, have a physical and while you are there...
3. Go get the finger. Prostate cancer is easy to beat if caught early.
4. Go get the snake. Colon cancer is easy to beat if caught early.

Fire in the cockpit is a rare occurance. Fire in the cockpit where you are trapped (the only reason you should stay in the car when it is on fire) is even rarer. A fire system is likely to preserve the car, but you said your goal was seeing a great daughter.

[seckerich]

I always run a fire bottle and a system. I have seen too many cars go off in the grass for a minor problem and burn from grass on the hot exhaust. The handheld lets you save the car. It is also insurance if you do have a problem and set off the fire system. Weekend is done unless you have a spare. With the bottle you are still IT legal.

[shwah]

I have both. I added the fire system when the kids came, but kept the hand held as it is more versatile. However I do have the luxury of needing ballast to make weight. Other cars might have a tougher time making this decision.

[Marcus Miller]

Handheld only...

IMO, places where money probably would be spent for a greater reduction in risk...

1. Do you have a head and neck restraint system? You're far more likely to snap/injure your neck then burn to death in your car.
2. What's your weight? If you are overweight, you are far more likely to die of a heart attack then burn in your car. You are far more likely to die of a heart attack while racing your car than burn in your car. Buy a weight loss and an exercise program. In fact, do it even if you aren't over weight. You are far less likely to have a heart attack if you exercise, but first, have a physical and while you are there...
3. Go get the finger. Prostate cancer is easy to beat if caught early.
4. Go get the snake. Colon cancer is easy to beat if caught early.

Fire in the cockpit is a rare occurance. Fire in the cockpit where you are trapped (the only reason you should stay in the car when it is on fire) is even rarer. A fire system is likely to preserve the car, but you said your goal was seeing a great daughter.

[rhygin]

In terms of risks... I have some bad habits, but generally take pretty good care of myself.

The car has a Chris Howard build cage, 6 point belts (installed properly), center net, and I have a HANs and am pretty particular when strapping into the car. I do carry quite a bit of ballast... a 45 lb block of lead after provisioning for a cool suit cooler and a hand held extinguisher.

I never really thought about the "both" option.... hmmm....

[Ken Grammer]

For those of you looking onto on-board systems, have a look at systems that use Cold Fire. Many tracks (VIR, NJMP to name two) already use Cold Fire and what is really good about Cold Fire is that it is bio-degradable and will NOT harm the driver if ingested. You coudl actually drink the stuff.

It doesn't remove oxygen so the driver can still breath. In fact, we point a nozzle directly at the driver to protect him/her.

If you saw the pit lane fire at this year's Indy race, that was Cold Fire.

At NJMP we hosted a demonstration for 13 regional fire departments, and it was amazing how this stuff works. I was already aware of the product, but when you see the stuff in real-life action, it is nothing short of amazing.

http://www.firefreeze.com/ (and no, I don't sell the product... just a believer).

[NutDriverRighty]

As stupid as it sounds, I'd like to encourage EVERYONE, no matter whether you have a hand held or an on-board to PRACTICE GETTING OUT OF THE CAR IN A HURRY!! I had a fire in my Baby Grand car at Rockingham two years ago. Steve Eckerich has a funny story of my looking like a "whack-a-mole" game as I tried to get out of the rooftop escape hatch. In my panic, I forgot to remove the steering wheel, forgot that I'd changed from a latch-type to a camlock harness, got my HANS hung on the halo trying to get out, and broke the T-handle for the fire system because I'd forgotten to remove the transport pin (the one IN the bottle) before the race. As Richard Pryor said, "Fire is Inspirational!". Vey wise words. Redundancy is good, even if it puts you over your minimum weight. A $12 trophy isn't worth nearly as much as the pain and suffering you could face by worrying about the wrong details. Just my $0.02 worth.

Scott Franklin

[tom_sprecher]

I have a 10# halon system. Yeah, it's heavy and I can't make weight, but there's a nozzle pointing at the fuel inlet/carb, the fuel cell fittings/fuel pump and my nuts. Also, I have had a interior fire before.

After hitting the inside wall at the top of the esses at Rd Atl the spare tire well cover had sheared off the rivets holding it down, exposing the fuel cell to the interior. The fuel line at the time ran outside the frame rails and had been sheared in two when the rear QP hit the wall. The fuel pump was running, pumping gas all over and I did not know until I smelled fire. Looking in the rear view I saw what looked like someone was going to use my spare tire well to cook some burgers and brats.

I unbuckled, pulled the fire system handle and tried to open the door, but the car was pinned against the wall. After climbing out of the window and cross the hood the fire was out except for some grass on the outer perimeter of the burn area. When the corner worker arrived he put that out with his hand held.

There was a lession learned and somethings have definitely been changed. Mainly, no fuel lines outside the frame rails, the fuel pump cuts off with a loss of oil pressure and no matter what the cost or hassle to refill a Halon system, it's well worth it. That, and I can't go flat through T4 AND into the esses...at least not yet.

[wepsbee]

My engine blew a rod, or 2, earlier this year at NHMS. I was told that when the 4 holes in my block spewed oil on my exhaust a very large and impressive ball of flame blew out the back. I however did not see any flame just some smoke. Certainly enough to cause some anxiety. I did pull over into the grass and set the grass on fire. At this point to be honest the last thing I thought of was pulling the handheld out of its bracket. I BAILED!!!! As quickly as I could. I let the workers put out what was left of the flames. You never really know how big the fire is when you are in the car, get out!!! This does not discount the fact that a handheld in the car is a nice thing to have if the flames have reached the interior and discharging the extingusher will give you a couple of secs or so. Handhelds also have the advantage of actually being able to discharge directly at wherever the flame is.

[ulfelder]

I always run a fire bottle and a system. I have seen too many cars go off in the grass for a minor problem and burn from grass on the hot exhaust. The handheld lets you save the car.

Ditto. We added a bottle to my interior before this season, and I felt it was overkill. But a few weeks ago at NJMP Impound, a fellow driver popped his hood, jumped back, and yelled "Fire!" It turned out to be melting plastic, and he just dumped a bottle of water on it, but I was happy to be standing there at his elbow with a fire bottle.

Steve Ulfelder
Flatout Motorsports
05 ITS

[seckerich]

I watched Rob May off to the left side of the front straight at VIR catch fire in a Miata. He blew a motor and parked it there. Grass started to burn. He was waiving frantically at the corner worker about 150 ft away and the guy just stood there. I know he wished he had a bottle.

[lawtonglenn]

we added firesystems to both cars after seeing a 911 faceplant
into a jersey barrier at NHIS 3 ....maybe it was a PCA race
or maybe qualifying....don't remember, it was a few years back

anyway....the guy faceplanted...and one second later the cockpit
was engulfed....I'm sure that I can pull the red handle in a
second, and equally sure I cannot unlatch the handheld, point
it, and squeeze the handle in that same second.

in fact, I'm pretty sure I'd rather be getting my ass out of
the car than fiddling with the bracket

get a firesystem

.

[rhygin]

Glad to see that this thread came back to life as there is a lot of good stuff in here.

I am prolly going to go with the "both" route. My passenger floor is actually getting pretty busy!

Seems to be a wide range in costs for these things...
Brad