Wheel width, ITB, again

[lateapex911]

Exactly. However all the rules torturing is why I've taken a multi-year break from IT to just go race and have fun instead (elsewhere, without all the rules yet still competition is incredible).... Still not sure I'm coming back, but love my IT car.......

Curious, where'd you go?

[Spinnetti]

Curious, where'd you go?

Here's a hint Drives like my IT car, only 1/2 the cost and faster, and on junkyard prep level. Only place where good racing is had between a 2400lb 4 cylinder, and a 3200lb quad cam v8 in all random mixes of cars and prep..... In this race, I lost to the 2400lb 4 cylinder, but my lap times were 3sec/lap better...... you don't need a billion rules and professional rule torturers to have good racing......

[AE86ITA]

Since the whole ITB is going to be re-evaluated why not re-consider standardizing wheel width in ITS, ITA, ITB & ITC?

It just makes sence as cars get slower get moved to a slower class less expenses and easier to find wheels for everyone.

[Spinnetti]

Since the whole ITB is going to be re-evaluated why not re-consider standardizing wheel width in ITS, ITA, ITB & ITC?

It just makes sence as cars get slower get moved to a slower class less expenses and easier to find wheels for everyone.

Any details on the re-eval? I'm right on the cusp of deciding to sell my Corolla. Why is wheel width such a big deal anyway?

[gran racing]

Don't have a fight in this anymore but keep the darn wheel width as-is. Or allow 7" wide wheels with a good weight adder. Nothing would piss off existing customers than making this change. 14 dry wheels were in my inventory at 6"s wide. Current itb racers have already made the investment. Not sure why this would even be a consideration with the itac now.

[Chip42]

what dave said. no one on the ad hoc has advertised a desire to see larger wheels in ITB and C.

[ShelbyRacer]

Actually, I have, in the past, specifically requested the ability to run 6.5 in ITB due to availability. And my car is 5x100, so I can't take advantage of the deals that have been made available here.

That said, I have not made, nor am I intending to make, that request again. If a request was made, I'd certainly discuss it, but given all the points that have been made against, I'm not thinking that it will change. Though I do like the idea that Dave mentioned about allowance with an adder, I'm not sure that's really a level of complexity that is appropriate for IT. Don't get me wrong- I have more 15x7 wheels sitting around currently than I do 15x6s, but I certainly am not going to try to push a huge change like this based on a personal situation.

I just wanted to make sure that people do know where I stand, since as an ITAC member, I need to be accountable. I wouldn't fight the change, but right now, I think we have larger issues with realignments in classes. Throwing in one more change, that does have real cost ramifications for MANY racers, is not something I'd support.

[joeg]

7 inch width to match SM; those 15X 7(s) are available everywhere.

[Andy Bettencourt]

7 inch width to match SM; those 15X 7(s) are available everywhere.

If you run a 4x100

[Flyinglizard]

Many of the sub 100hp cars will go slower on more rubber.
I doubt that anyone would mind allowing 7in . More cheap options are always better.
Why dont you ask around at the next race?? \
Each of the ITAC take a notepad to grid

[Chip42]

Mike - a 225 is faster than a 205 @ sebring and savannah, as well as other "local" tracks. a 7" wide wheel adds to that contact patch AND hugely increases buying options. many people already have a 6" wheel collection and would be VERY upset if the rules changed. now is not the time for such things. lets get the hous ein order, then wory about the door mat.

[pugboy]

If you can mount 225's on a 6" wheel, would 245's be theoretically faster in an ITB car - relatively low HP? I am not trying to fan any flames. I am truly curious.

[philstireservice]

If you can mount 225's on a 6" wheel, would 245's be theoretically faster in an ITB car - relatively low HP? I am not trying to fan any flames. I am truly curious.

If you are talking about mounting a 245 on a 6" wheel, well most likely not. You will not gain the foot print because you will be squeezing that sucker in so much.....

[gran racing]

It would really depend upon the track and the actual contact patch that is attained. Then on top of that, I'd be curious how a wider Autocross tire would work if the rim allowance were opened up to 7"s. Right now many cars burn up the As too quickly. If opened up to 7" wheels, maybe that would change a bit? Regardless, there absolutely would be a competitive advantage by opening up 7" wide wheels.

[pugboy]

I was curious if, just for an example, a Mk III ITB Golf would perform better with 255/265 tires with 7" wheels vs. 225 on 6" wheels? If that makes sense.

I can see where many racers are coming from that they've invested in wheels for the class, and now they may not be competitive if the rules change. BTW, I need to include myself in that camp. It's a tough situation, but my feeling is that keeping the 6" rule is probably the most fair to everyone.

[Flyinglizard]

Times have changed. When IT started, VWs, Hondas etc, had 4.5 -5.5 in wide wheels. The 6 in was big then. You could buy nice 6 wide wheels, and matching race tires. I bought an entire car to get the right wheels , not long ago.

Skip 20yrs. Many new cars have 7in wide stock wheels. I think that the B spec cars have 6 or 7 stock, and race on the standard Sm wheels of 15x7.
All of the dropped A cars have 7s. The Beetle does also . Making racers , race on wheels less than stock, defies logic. IMHO
Now days , you cant easily buy 6 in wheels or tires designed for them.
Maybe it is time to move on. maybe the 100# for 7 in wheels would be fine.

Really, the ITAC should consult the racers that are racing the cars. Put out a letter for input. Ask on the grid.
For a club driven by members. SCCA seldom ask the customers what they want. Please start asking.

[StephenB]

Making racers , race on wheels less than stock, defies logic. IMHO
Really, the ITAC should consult the racers that are racing the cars. Put out a letter for input. Ask on the grid.
For a club driven by members. SCCA seldom ask the customers what they want. Please start asking.

FYI SCCA IT racing is the only racing series I can run Stock size wheels on my RX8. Grand-AM, Canadian Touring Car, and World Challenge all make me run smaller diameter and width rims/tires.

PS: I vote to leave it as is, all new rims costs more than my ITB car is worth!

[lateapex911]

Really, the ITAC should consult the racers that are racing the cars. Put out a letter for input. Ask on the grid.
For a club driven by members. SCCA seldom ask the customers what they want. Please start asking.

For what it's worth, in my time on the ITAC, I bent over backwards asking guys questions. The CRB thought I was TOO communicative, LOL. I think the current group are doing a pretty good job of keeping current on racers opinions.

It's def an issue, and some guys would actually have both widths...for different tracks. Coming up with a "penalty weight" would be tricky, and it would never affect all cars in the class equally.

[lateapex911]

I was curious if, just for an example, a Mk III ITB Golf would perform better with 255/265 tires with 7" wheels vs. 225 on 6" wheels? If that makes sense.

I can see where many racers are coming from that they've invested in wheels for the class, and now they may not be competitive if the rules change. BTW, I need to include myself in that camp. It's a tough situation, but my feeling is that keeping the 6" rule is probably the most fair to everyone.

Yes, SOME cars would be faster on wider rims with more rubber. Some, like the lesser powered cars that are already flat at many corners. (ITC and lots of ITB cars at say Lime Rock), would likely be slower, due to increased rolling resistance.

And Dave brings up another good point. Where some ITB cars can now use A compound tires and make them last a race, other heavier cars cannot. (on the current 6" rim) Change the width rule, and that aspect changes too.

Finally, the rule disallows anything that doesn't fit under the stock fender. Some cars have plenty of room for wider setups, yet others don't. A rule change allowing wider rims will be unfair to those cars, as they can not legally fit the new allowance.

[Chip42]

also keep in mind that MOST cars in ITB, even with the recent additions from ITA, came from the factory with 6" or smaller width wheels AND there are 15x6 options out there to fit almost every car in the class if only by using other car's stock wheels. ITC guys seem to like their 13s by and large.

15x6" is the sweet spot for tire fitments right now, SM6, A6, R6, BFG, Toyo RR, RA1, R888, Yokohama whatever it is that no one runs, Goodyear, hankook all have fitments, many don't have a 14" option but all fit on a 15x6.

so that point is moot.

7" wide wheels were pretty roundly addressed above. it's NOT a pressing issue.

for the 4on104.5, 5on100/etc... crowds - if you need a wheel, make noise. the 4x100 question has been answered and it's not much of a stretch to imagine that a similar answer could be had for you.