Wheel width, ITB, again

[mossaidis]

^ I don't get it...

[AE86ITA]

^ I don't get it...

I would expect that (if the 15x7 weights 15.2 Lbs) the 15x6 to weight 13 Lbs. or less

[Knestis]

...and the rules have even less obligation of making sure that entrants of every make/model option have cheap AND light wheels.

K

[AE86ITA]

Good point, I bought a set of Volks TE37 15x7 0mm offset(10 Lbs) that got destroyed in an accident. There is no longer that kind of budget for wheels, for now on must keep an eye on expenses...

[Chip42]

1" of rim width is pretty light compared to the center part of the wheel. Comparing one wheel model and width to a different wheel with a different width is not a good way to predict wheel weight. 13-15 lbs is common in that size.

[Bill Miller]

I would expect that (if the 15x7 weights 15.2 Lbs) the 15x6 to weight 13 Lbs. or less

I thought Glenn's post said that they weigh 13lbs. Did I miss something?

Also, any option for Phil or Chip to order a set or two drilled at a different bolt circle? I know the offset / backspacing won't change, but you can fix that w/ spacers.

[StephenB]

you can fix the bolt pattern issue with a set of spacers as well.

Stephen

[Chip42]

with sufficient interest from the 114.3 crowd (audis, porsche, old toyota, etc...) we can do a run of the 114.3"x4 wheels.... but I'm pretty sure we'd need to have preorders enough to predicate the deal. let us know, it's not impossible.

[AE86ITA]

with sufficient interest from the 114.3 crowd (audis, porsche, old toyota, etc...) we can do a run of the 114.3"x4 wheels.... but I'm pretty sure we'd need to have preorders enough to predicate the deal. let us know, it's not impossible.

How about offset options??

[Chip42]

How about offset options??

they'd be 35mm just like the 4x100 wheels. for lower offsets, you have a lot of 4x114.3 options in the vintage sportscar market.

[Spinnetti]

I got bumped down to B with two sets of expensive new wheels I can't use now, but I'll leave that axe to grind for a later date (I just stopped racing SCCA instead for now)... I would say however, that if a car comes to class with STOCK wheels bigger than the class allowance, its probably not a good idea to force smaller wheels on them (I wouldn't build a race car running smaller wheels than stock). Cars that come from the factory with standard (not optional/trunk kit) wheels bigger than class rules should be allowed either to go to the class spec, OR run factory/factory exact replica wheels. Going down in size seems contrary to safety and commmon sense. This doesn't help me any, but is right for the class IMO

[Knestis]

This was an ITAC topic for a while 3 years ago or so. A resolution discussed was the option of running the STOCK wheels, limiting the size in instances where a driver ELECTS to replace them. Remember that with the exception of safety requirements, it's not mandatory to take advantage of allowances for aftermarket parts.

K

[JoshS]

This was an ITAC topic for a while 3 years ago or so. A resolution discussed was the option of running the STOCK wheels, limiting the size in instances where a driver ELECTS to replace them. Remember that with the exception of safety requirements, it's not mandatory to take advantage of allowances for aftermarket parts.

I believe that's what the rules already say (although some disagree with me.)

9.1.3.D: AUTHORIZED MODIFICATIONS The following modifications are authorized on all Improved Touring Category cars. Modifications shall not be made unless authorized herein.
(my comment -- these are authorized modifications. It is implicit that leaving a component in its stock state is fine.)

9.1.3.D.7: Any wheel/tire may be used within the following limitations:
(my comment -- because this is part of 9.1.3.D, which lists authorized modifications, any wheel/tire within the following limitations may be used as an authorized modification. Stock is still fine.

9.1.3.D.7.a: Maximum allowable rim widths: ITR - 8.5 inches, classes ITS and ITA - seven (7) inches; classes ITB and ITC - six (6) inches.
(my comment -- so, only non-stock wheels are subject to this limit.)

[Bill Miller]

I believe that's what the rules already say (although some disagree with me.)

9.1.3.D: AUTHORIZED MODIFICATIONS The following modifications are authorized on all Improved Touring Category cars. Modifications shall not be made unless authorized herein.
(my comment -- these are authorized modifications. It is implicit that leaving a component in its stock state is fine.)

9.1.3.D.7: Any wheel/tire may be used within the following limitations:
(my comment -- because this is part of 9.1.3.D, which lists authorized modifications, any wheel/tire within the following limitations may be used as an authorized modification. Stock is still fine.

9.1.3.D.7.a: Maximum allowable rim widths: ITR - 8.5 inches, classes ITS and ITA - seven (7) inches; classes ITB and ITC - six (6) inches.
(my comment -- so, only non-stock wheels are subject to this limit.)

Josh,

While I respect your perspective, I doubt that would ever fly. Show up w/ an ITC New Beetle w/ the stock 16x6.5 wheels, and they're not going to be legal.

I forget which car it was, but I recall some spec line exception for an ITS car to allow it to run 'larger than limit' wheels, because they were stock. Not sure if that was a diameter issue, or a width issue. I also recall the issue of wheel width when we were working on ITR.

[StephenB]

My RX8 is allowed 18 inch rims as they came stock with the car. It is noted in the GCR though.

Stephen

[Chip42]

I think this is like weight - it's a hard limit that is in effect regardless of what the stock equipment was. it's worded badly in the rules, but the maximum width wheel in IT_ is indicated in the ITCS and the maximum diameter on the specline for the car.

but I guess that I'd be fine with stock wheels over the class size limits IF you run stock size and speed rating tires, too. the idea that running a thinner wheel than stock is somehow unsafe, when that car is also equipped with different springs, dampers, lower ride height, "DOT R" compound tires, racing brake linings, and a weight that may be hundreds of pounds heavier or lighter than stock curb weight (and always much lower than the GVWR) while subjecting it to racing conditions NEVER INTENDED for that chassis is silly.

[JoshS]

I think this is like weight - it's a hard limit that is in effect regardless of what the stock equipment was. it's worded badly in the rules, but the maximum width wheel in IT_ is indicated in the ITCS and the maximum diameter on the specline for the car.

Well, that might have been the intention, but I don't think that's what the rules say. I used the same argument to allow the stock S2000 rear shocks (remove reservoir) when we got letters about that, but all I know is that no rules changed as a result. I don't remember what we told those owners.

[Bill Miller]

Well, that might have been the intention, but I don't think that's what the rules say. I used the same argument to allow the stock S2000 rear shocks (remove reservoir) when we got letters about that, but all I know is that no rules changed as a result. I don't remember what we told those owners.

It's just another case of poorly written rules. Again, I appreciate your line of thinking, but if stock parts are good regardless, why are there places in the ITCS that say "unless fitted as stock / original equipment"?

There's also the whole issue of legality of aftermarket parts. If it's legal to use an aftermarket part that is equivalent to the stock, OEM part, why would it not be legal to use an aftermarket wheel that is equivalent to the stock wheel?

Both sides of the argument can be seen as valid. I can see this as being a case that needs an official interpretation.

[Ed Funk]

Gawd! Winter and the attendant winter silliness started early this year!

[Spinnetti]

It's just another case of poorly written rules. Again, I appreciate your line of thinking, but if stock parts are good regardless, why are there places in the ITCS that say "unless fitted as stock / original equipment"?

There's also the whole issue of legality of aftermarket parts. If it's legal to use an aftermarket part that is equivalent to the stock, OEM part, why would it not be legal to use an aftermarket wheel that is equivalent to the stock wheel?

Both sides of the argument can be seen as valid. I can see this as being a case that needs an official interpretation.

Exactly. However all the rules torturing is why I've taken a multi-year break from IT to just go race and have fun instead (elsewhere, without all the rules yet still competition is incredible).... Still not sure I'm coming back, but love my IT car.......