Wheel width, ITB, again

[rlward]

So bill, what is your take? I'm only 18 till i die (63), and I like my car. Have you been able to find any 15x6 other than stock? Did you get any 7" before the switch? I thought about machining the wheel to accept a lighter rim, but could not find anybody that would take on the project and can't do it myself with any confidence.

One other thing, are all atac members from east of the rockies? Someone asked where I race. Cal Club.

I was ok on weight untill the killer heat, want to add a cool suit but that weight has to be offset and the only place left is wheels.

I looked every where for wheels. No cars left, it seem the air nazies have offered a bounty on 80's dodge products, nothing in wrecking yards out here, all crushed.

To everyone else, including the beatle builders, wouldn't the fitment solution take care of the entire problem? I can't see where we could advocate/demand running on smaller wheels than came stock, has anyone looked at the max load for tires? And, if everyone is against a spec line allowance, although there may/will be costs involved isn't that still the best solution over the long run? We need to find a viable solution, even if it is not 7" in ITB.

[Z3_GoCar]

Seriously, I agree with Rodger and Greg. Open it up to what ever fits under the finder over the stock brakes, and around the suspension. I just don't see the reason to have the biggest rim under there. Of course I'm still running 16x7 stock rims that only weigh 18lbs each. The balance comes when you run more tire than the car has weight to handle or hp to spin up. Other than that pull the old "you pick your car warts and all" line.

[StephenB]

Seriously, I agree with Rodger and Greg. Open it up to what ever fits under the finder over the stock brakes, and around the suspension. I just don't see the reason to have the biggest rim under there. Of course I'm still running 16x7 stock rims that only weigh 18lbs each. The balance comes when you run more tire than the car has weight to handle or hp to spin up. Other than that pull the old "you pick your car warts and all" line.

I posted several times in the begining of this thread and I don't really have any arguements other than what I have posted as I feel that what I have already said clearly explains my view.

However I have to comment on the idea above. (Not to pick on you z3_gocar but you where the last to suggest this idea again) IS this honestly something you would really consider! Dave Gran posted some sizes of rims that would fit under the fenders for Volvos and I think Saabs. If anyone thinks that ITB is all about HP and such I think diefferently and I truelly think that MOMENTUM is huge! with 13inches of Rubber under a Volvo (or a size somewhere between 6inch to 13inch) I certainly think they will GAIN corner speed and therefor momentum and will drop lap times significantly.

would you take the challenge to race for pinks with your car... you on 4" wide tires and me on 10" wide tires?

Someone said it on some thread... Size matters

I strongly suggest that we do not consider the "if it fits run it" idea. Other ideas that have been posted are good alternatives... I still stick to the idea that you should be able to run the stock rims that came from the factory on your car. "IT catagory rules" do not guarentee competiveness and if you want the lighter rims they exist for a price.

Stephen

[spnkzss]

I posted several times in the begining of this thread and I don't really have any arguements other than what I have posted as I feel that what I have already said clearly explains my view.

However I have to comment on the idea above. (Not to pick on you z3_gocar but you where the last to suggest this idea again) IS this honestly something you would really consider! Dave Gran posted some sizes of rims that would fit under the fenders for Volvos and I think Saabs. If anyone thinks that ITB is all about HP and such I think diefferently and I truelly think that MOMENTUM is huge! with 13inches of Rubber under a Volvo (or a size somewhere between 6inch to 13inch) I certainly think they will GAIN corner speed and therefor momentum and will drop lap times significantly.

would you take the challenge to race for pinks with your car... you on 4" wide tires and me on 10" wide tires?

Someone said it on some thread... Size matters

I strongly suggest that we do not consider the "if it fits run it" idea. Other ideas that have been posted are good alternatives... I still stick to the idea that you should be able to run the stock rims that came from the factory on your car. "IT catagory rules" do not guarentee competiveness and if you want the lighter rims they exist for a price.

Stephen

And you assume in the lower HP cars that a 9" rim won't slow you down in the corner.

[StephenB]

And you assume in the lower HP cars that a 9" rim won't slow you down in the corner.

It quite possibly could but I don't know and that's a "chance" I don't think we should take.

And lets say your correct a low HP car would slow down... like a Suzuki. But what about a high HP car (in comparison for the class) like a volvo or Audi? Are they affected and will they be slower? If I could fit more rubber on the front of my car I do think I could go faster at some tracks. LRP is an example... I really do think I could go faster if I could get more rubber under the front of my car that weighs in at almost 1700lbs in front of the front wheels. More sustained momentum around a track like this and I would argue my lap times will drop. This is an example of how I am NOT thinking selfishly here as my car has more HP and tourque than most ITB cars and I think I would be one that could benefit.

If the only reason ITR cars need the wider tires is for the extra HP then why don't they run 6inch wide rims on the front of their rear wheel drive cars? I think it helps them with maintaining grip on entry into the corners and increasing apex speed and exit speed after the apex resulting in a greater entry speed onto the straights. Basically keeps your momentum UP increasing lap times.

JMHO it could be totally wrong but I don't have any data to support or negate it and I think the "Chance" to mess things up is high and the chance that it could upset a class that I think is pretty good with a large variaty of "cars to have" as is.

When the ITAC decides they want input on the subject I will write a letter supporting the current rules with an added allowance for stock rims from the factory be allowed. Good converstation and topic I honestly had no idea that this problem existed in my little bubble

[Z3_GoCar]

....One other thing, are all atac members from east of the rockies? Someone asked where I race. Cal Club.....

Rodger,

Josh is our West coast ITAC rep.... he's in SFR. Now that you mention it, it's a shame the region that invented IT doesn't have someone on the Ad Hoc.

[StephenB]

[QUOTE=rlward;289693]
I was ok on weight untill the killer heat, want to add a cool suit but that weight has to be offset and the only place left is wheels.

QUOTE]

Roger,

Do you want lighter wheels then stock to meet minimum weight? If that is the reason I am less sympathetic. I thought your bitterness was because the "move" forced you to purchase new rims?

Stephen

[RacerBill]

So bill, what is your take? I'm only 18 till i die (63), and I like my car. Have you been able to find any 15x6 other than stock? Did you get any 7" before the switch? I thought about machining the wheel to accept a lighter rim, but could not find anybody that would take on the project and can't do it myself with any confidence.

One other thing, are all atac members from east of the rockies? Someone asked where I race. Cal Club.

I was ok on weight untill the killer heat, want to add a cool suit but that weight has to be offset and the only place left is wheels.

I looked every where for wheels. No cars left, it seem the air nazies have offered a bounty on 80's dodge products, nothing in wrecking yards out here, all crushed.

To everyone else, including the beatle builders, wouldn't the fitment solution take care of the entire problem? I can't see where we could advocate/demand running on smaller wheels than came stock, has anyone looked at the max load for tires? And, if everyone is against a spec line allowance, although there may/will be costs involved isn't that still the best solution over the long run? We need to find a viable solution, even if it is not 7" in ITB.

Roger: How bout that - I'm 18 (63) too! My take is that I would love to be able to use 7" wheels. I did not get any before the switch, so I am not in as bad a position as you are. My company where I worked for 10 years just downsized, so my racing budget is REALLY constrained this year. The ad on the inside cover of the issue of Sports Car that just arrived shows only one 15x6 wheel at $300 each. But 8 wheels at 15x7, from $115 to $473, and from 9.3 to 13 lbs. Certainly a much larger selection. I will say that I have not investigated the availability of 7" wheels in 13" or 14", and that definitely effects other cars in the class.

One thing that has not been brought up is the fact that the spec line in the ITCS for the Shelby specifies 15" wheels.

So, my emotions are kind of mixed. I would love to be able to save 7lbs a wheel at a reasonable cost. Still, I can understand the concerns of other ITB/ITC drivers.

[kgobey]

The only reason we should "allow" the larger wheel size is when the competition tires dry up for 13 and 14 inch wheels. Really otherwise this "cost effective class" get's that much further away from it original intention. (we've been repeating this same sentiment for 20 years now, what's changed?