Wheel width, ITB, again

[frnkhous]

tga, your looking at the wrong end for this broad change you propose of no wheel rule. Think about a front wheel drive ITS prelude now being able to run a 15x9" wheel with a 275/35 15 tire up front. You don't think that is gonna be a huge help? If he can't get them hot enough just run A's instead of R's. I'd much rather see the rule made 7" to be identical in itc-its than to open it up completely. I'm positive that somewhere maybe barber even my itc car would be faster with a 225/45 15 in an autox compound on a 15x7.5 wheel. Think of it more like a big gocart, slight lift and turn to scrub speed. No partial throttle, just lift/brake turn full throttle, even if it is still scrubbing a little speed down to the apex you just enter faster. Prod cars do it with 100-140 hp(more obviously for some cars/classes), why do you guys think are cars will react any different to more grip? I do think places like turn 1 at mid ohio would simply slow my car to have more tire, but not enough to make me not run it for the carosel, the keyhole, and the esses. Not to mention I'm sure I can carry more speed into thundervalley with more tire. If the logic that more grip/tire can be bad why don't low hp production guys run DOT tires to lose some grip, maybe whe should all run 195/60 r14 615 azenis cause without all that mad grip slowing us down in the corners we will go faster. Sorry, but Jake is right, speeds would go up significantly on some cars, and I can't believe from a cost standpoint anyone would suggest this as acceptable. tga, if you were building lets say a fwd its car, I'm positive you'd now want more front tire, now if said car wasn't a 4x100 bolt pattern your back to high dollar wheels, What have you fixed? Allow downsizing to 15" wheels, make the rule 7"inches wide, tell them to get kodiak racing wheels or similar in a 16x6 17x6 size because they can, I don't care but opening up the rule Is stupid and cost prohibitive period.

Brian Frank

[rlward]

Steven,
I had just purchased 7" rims and was then reclassed. That $ is wasted.

fitment still seems to be the best answer that works accross the board for all classs now and in the future.

[lateapex911]

Rodger, what date (approx) did you buy the wheels?

[Greg Amy]

Rodger, what date (approx) did you buy the wheels?

Jake, at the risk of seeming rude (not intended) let's not use lawyer tactics of trying to publicly trap someone. Attack the message, not the messenger... - GA

[Andy Bettencourt]

Greg,

Since I can never figure it out, how about someone set up a poll on this. What would we use for options?

1. Rule as is
2. Allow OEM wheels
3. Allow stock SIZED wheels
4. Move ITC and ITB to 7" width
5. Open up IT to any wheel size

[quadzjr]

I am for rule 1-2

[Greg Amy]

...how about someone set up a poll on this.

Done.

[Knestis]

A poll posits possible solutions but we aren't clear what the problem is. Or more accurately, there are a bunch of problems - some real, some red herrings I think - presented here. Unless we're clear on what we're trying to DO, the chances of getting the action right is pretty slim.

K

[StephenB]

Steven,
I had just purchased 7" rims and was then reclassed. That $ is wasted..

Thanks for clarifying Roger. From the post I quoted earlier I thought maybe you were reclassified and could no longer meet minimum weight so you wanted to get lighter rims to acheive it. I definetly sympathize with you and feel bad that the reclassification didn't work out for you. I honestly think you should be able to run ITA with the original specifications you built your car to. (eventhough you probably have a better chance at running in the front on stock rims, but IMHO that should be your choice.) I think you are one of the examples on how a rule change can hurt some people eventhough they appear to be better for the make/class in the overall perspective. I feel bad that you feel like you got a rotton deal especially if you spent the extra $$ and if you built the car planning on running with friends.

fitment still seems to be the best answer that works accross the board for all classs now and in the future.

I will continue to have a different opinion but that's what makes us human! I congratulate you for sticking to your idea just don't hold a grudge against those of us that disagree with you Remember there is always someone getting screwed with a rule change. As far as $$ spent I am on the other side of the fence as I have already purchased my 6" rims (2 more spares 1 race ago) and for me if this rule changes then instead of you getting screwed out of $$ I am. However with your new rule I think I can go MUCH faster so if it does change I will be purchasing new rims at some point! I have no problem getting my 225 tires that are stuffed onto a 6" rim up to tempature and I would love to go a little wider! If you ever see my car you would be shocked... I have 1700lbs on the front tires and 750 on the rears. Its not a "normal" 1700lbs, I have the see-saw affect where the ENTIRE engine and the majority of the weight is not over but in front of the front wheels. weird setup and unlike any other ITB car. I currently run 225 in front and 205 in the rear and always come in at or around 200degrees. one thing not mentioned here is that it is more than just tire width that changes the temps on the tires, I have personally found that shocks rates and spring rates play a huge role in this as well.

Stephen

PS: If the ITAC decides to talk about this and solicite member feedback what is the process? Does this forum influence the members of the ITAC or do they strictly go by the letters they recieve? The reason I ask is that very few members in the IT comunity probably have read this thread so a majority of them have no idea that the ITAC is even thinking about any changes.

[Andy Bettencourt]

The reason I ask is that very few members in the IT comunity probably have read this thread so a majority of them have no idea that the ITAC is even thinking about any changes.

We really aren't. One thiing people have to remember is that this board may have ITAC members commenting on issues - but that really has nothing to do with what is on the plate in terms of 'official' business.

[StephenB]

Thanks Andy That's what I was hoping for just wasn't sure.

[lateapex911]

Interesting poll. I'd be really interested if we could somehow segment the ITB and ITC responders answers.

[quadzjr]

how did Z3GoCar and GA get to vote twice?

[Knestis]

You can "select all that apply" with web form checkboxes.

K

[quadzjr]

You can "select all that apply" with web form checkboxes.

K

Doh I should of done that.. for 1 and 2.. ohh well. .

[Andy Bettencourt]

Options?

Revolution Wheels. http://www.revolutionwheels.com/index.php

Interestingly tons of 13x6 and 15x6 options...evan a 16x5.5...but no 14"

[JoshS]

Interestingly tons of 13x6 and 15x6 options...evan a 16x5.5...but no 14"

14x6 in the Minator: http://www.revolutionwheels.com/minator/

[RacerBill]

So bill, what is your take? I'm only 18 till i die (63), and I like my car. Have you been able to find any 15x6 other than stock? Did you get any 7" before the switch? I thought about machining the wheel to accept a lighter rim, but could not find anybody that would take on the project and can't do it myself with any confidence.

One other thing, are all atac members from east of the rockies? Someone asked where I race. Cal Club.

I was ok on weight untill the killer heat, want to add a cool suit but that weight has to be offset and the only place left is wheels.

I looked every where for wheels. No cars left, it seem the air nazies have offered a bounty on 80's dodge products, nothing in wrecking yards out here, all crushed.

To everyone else, including the beatle builders, wouldn't the fitment solution take care of the entire problem? I can't see where we could advocate/demand running on smaller wheels than came stock, has anyone looked at the max load for tires? And, if everyone is against a spec line allowance, although there may/will be costs involved isn't that still the best solution over the long run? We need to find a viable solution, even if it is not 7" in ITB.

Roger: How bout that - I'm 18 (63) too! My take is that I would love to be able to use 7" wheels. I did not get any before the switch, so I am not in as bad a position as you are. My company where I worked for 10 years just downsized, so my racing budget is REALLY constrained this year. The ad on the inside cover of the issue of Sports Car that just arrived shows only one 15x6 wheel at $300 each. But 8 wheels at 15x7, from $115 to $473, and from 9.3 to 13 lbs. Certainly a much larger selection. I will say that I have not investigated the availability of 7" wheels in 13" or 14", and that definitely effects other cars in the class.

One thing that has not been brought up is the fact that the spec line in the ITCS for the Shelby specifies 15" wheels.

So, my emotions are kind of mixed. I would love to be able to save 7lbs a wheel at a reasonable cost. Still, I can understand the concerns of other ITB/ITC drivers.

[kgobey]

The only reason we should "allow" the larger wheel size is when the competition tires dry up for 13 and 14 inch wheels. Really otherwise this "cost effective class" get's that much further away from it original intention. (we've been repeating this same sentiment for 20 years now, what's changed?

[RacerBill]

Thanks for clarifying Roger...

As far as $$ spent I am on the other side of the fence as I have already purchased my 6" rims (2 more spares 1 race ago) and for me if this rule changes then instead of you getting screwed out of $$ I am.

Not quite, Stephen. You can still run your 6" rims and be legal (there is a perception here that you will not be quite as competitive if other cars go to 7"). But Roger cannot run legally in ITB with the wheels he just bought, and MUST purchase new 15x6's.

I see a difference with having to buy new wheels just to keep up with the Joneses and having to buy new wheels in order to be able to race legally. BTW, I have had stewards tell me they would not measure my wheel widths, implying that I should go ahead and buy the 7's. I do agree that that is just not right!