99 miata or 2nd gen RX7? best ITS solution...

[gpeluso]

I have been running SpecMiata the last 2 years but miss the mix of cars..... I have an extra 99 w/hardtop but can not figuire out how it can be competitive in ITS when I see some of the BMW's (and being a former E36 owner). Where I live RX7's are foreign to all shops.... I have done research and found how ISC has a fast miata but they also have unbelievavle drivers..... My real question is what seems more realistic Miata or 2nd Gen? $$$, reliablity are important too.....

To me a miata would need to make 165 whp to have a chance......I have a handle on the suspension that would work for a miata......or do I buy a good used 2nd gen RX7( would never try and build with zero knowledge). I saw this weekend a BMW just destroy RX7's but it has to be the quaility of the builds...I know the BMW I am speeking of makes TOP power...I know nothing about the RX7's(three of them) that ran against the BMW. I think if the MIATA worked better we would see more in ITS..... Maybe I just need this extra 1999 w/ hardtop out of my garage so I will just quit trying to figuire it out..... Any thoughts???

Greg

[tnord]

about 6mos ago, i would've said go with the miata. i was shopping for one myself, but ended up with a 96 for ITA instead.

but recently (in part due to a hugely misleading article in sportscar) there has been a mob gathering for a witch hunt against the miata in ITA. this stems from fear of the many years of pointed development in both SM car and driver that has produced a very, very quick package. often times the SM guys outrun the ITA guys, despite being down 10-15hp, and having inferior tires and suspensions.

with the shortcomings of the SM ruleset there is more and more people making the switch to IT, bringing their car prep and driver ability with them. consequently, former SM now ITA competitors are starting to see some good results (yet nothing like the Honda crowd has seen for as long as i can remember) and it's unjustifiably raising eyebrows. to paraphrase one of my fellow ITA competitors "it makes me skeptical when these miatas show up out of nowhere and start kicking butt."

the point is i don't see any reason why this couldn't happen to the ITS miata. get a few good finishes, and the mob will switch their attention to you, using any combination of rumor, lie, speculation, ignorance, and fear to justify an adjustment to the ITAC.

[racingralph]

if we had a 99 miata , we would be racing it in its... we are racing a rx-7 in the southeast. i think the miatas will be a great car for the class. you use the same tire as we do , are are bout 300lbs lighter. you've already got the car... a no brainer !! ralph mcconnell

[dspillrat]

The ISC/Vansteenburg ITS cars are making very good power and handle on rails..... My sunbelt 240z engine could not pull Kips car at ARRC in 2007.....and mine was around 188 flywheel HP ...... well driven they are contenders.... Charbonneau is kicking ass now in their ITS cars.... But looking at his 2008 ITA versus 2009 ITS times, he was over a second slower in the S car this year at Roebling Road in april. Slow track??

[quadzjr]

The ISC/Vansteenburg ITS cars are making very good power and handle on rails..... My sunbelt 240z engine could not pull Kips car at ARRC in 2007.....and mine was around 188 flywheel HP ...... well driven they are contenders.... Charbonneau is kicking ass now in their ITS cars.... But looking at his 2008 ITA versus 2009 ITS times, he was over a second slower in the S car this year at Roebling Road in april. Slow track??

That whole weekend was slow. compare his "s" time to Mike and Kips A times.. with the exception of the ITB race most times were a good bit off lap records.

As for the "s" cars talk to mike @ ISC. They are always battling up front there "s" cars and can mix it up withthe best of BMW's and RX-7's.

[Knestis]

Travis does a good job of paying attention to the goings-on in IT but I'm afraid that he's laboring under the misconception that the ITAC makes its recommendations to the CRB for car specs based on what the mobs want.

Your ITAC members have been busting their butts (I just listen in and drink Appletinis) to define a process that is repeatable and as diddle-proof as something like this can be. I of course don't pretend to speak for the whole committee but it is pretty safe to say that we do NOT make decisions based on "a few good finishes."

K

[Ron Earp]

I'm with Ralph and David. Having watched some ITS Miatas that were well-prepped I know you can be winning in one if you hold up the driving end of things.

[Mazmarc63]

I have raced an ITS Rx-7 for 13 years. Go with the Miata. I am afraid the life cycle of the Rx-7 is reaching the light at the end of the tunnel. Parts are becoming more difficult to get and just as he did with the Rx-7's, Mike is building the Miata into the next ITS weapon. Admittedly, Andrew threw a con rod through the block in the Miata three weeks ago at Daytona. Something you wont see happening in an Rx-7.

Like Ron said, still gotta drive it though.

[tnord]

Travis does a good job of paying attention to the goings-on in IT but I'm afraid that he's laboring under the misconception that the ITAC makes its recommendations to the CRB for car specs based on what the mobs want.

Your ITAC members have been busting their butts (I just listen in and drink Appletinis) to define a process that is repeatable and as diddle-proof as something like this can be. I of course don't pretend to speak for the whole committee but it is pretty safe to say that we do NOT make decisions based on "a few good finishes."

K

and i think you guys are laboring under the misconception that people don't submit "data" (term used as sarcastically as possible) with the underlying motivation being results.

from what i can see, you guys are willing to take this "data" and conjecture as fact, and act on "what you think you know." i agree that you guys have done an excellent job of removing, and working towards removing as much "diddle-ability" from the process as possible.

but there's still that pesky power multiplier and using "what you think you know."

[Knestis]

Oh, trust me Travis - we TOTALLY understand the motivations behind any information provided to us. It's usually not too tough to suss out what someone wants, based on what they provide.

This is an opportune moment to share a few hints with anyone who cares about this issue...

** Car A beats Car B is not evidence that A needs to be slowed down or B needs a break. Travis is right on that you might reasonably use that as the basis to go looking for evidence, or that this will likely be the motivation behind requests that specifications be reviewed. It is not however "evidence."

** Hypothetical power estimates - like when street car guys figure out how much power they have by adding up the advertised gains from the "mods" - are weak evidence at best.

** It's perfectly reasonable to share your support - or lack thereof - for any potential rule change. You are empowered to say, "I understand that the Borgward is being considered for classification in ITC and am vehemently opposed to that idea!!! I raced Borgwards in the Olde Country so I KNOW that they will ruin the category." But please remember that we're trying to make the IT weight specification process as objective as possible. It might be that NOBODY wants [whatever race weight] but we will still recommend it to the Board if it's what we get out of our collection of practices and processes.

** If you have input that you want considered, it is best if it is (a) in a web-enabled form we can archive, (b) attributable to an actual live human being, and (c) not super secret. Something you heard from someone, have no physical documentation of, and can't tell who told you isn't going to be particularly compelling.

The ITAC (I will take the risk of speaking for them on this) takes the task of separating conjecture and opinion from fact very seriously, and is pretty smart on the issue. VERY importantly, the committee membership also represents a wide range of priorities and experiences. That slows us down at times but I think you all can be pretty confident that we're not a group of Yes Men.

K

[Tristan Smith]

I just listen in and drink Appletinis
K

Appletinis???!!!! oh the shame...........