Roll cage bad bend?

[moe_1200]

This could be a dumb question but on the front down tubes on my roll cage there is a crimp where they were bent to go from the a-pillars to behind the dash. In the GCR it states that you cannot have any crimping on the main hoop but i'm not sure about these front down tubes. It doesn't look too safe to me so i'm assuming its no good but if I could get away without having to completely change the down tubes that would be great. It's a halo design cage if that matters any.

Also another question I'm having is about my turn signal/running lights. According to the regs any lights mounted on or below the bumper shall be removed. The car is a 93 Ford Probe and the turn signals are mounted at bumper level recessed in about an inch. Do I need to remove these or can I leave them since they are recessed into the bumper?

[Streetwise guy]

I sure don't like it. It appears the bend wasn't a tight enough radius, so he "finessed" it with a porto-power.If you just paid somebody a bunch of cash to install the cage, I would go back and bitch until he redid the downtubes. If its a car you have bought, cage done already, it can probably be repaired with a supplemental tube to be as strong as it needs to be. The problem then is passing tech, since any repair/modification that falls into either a gray area or in a plain old black area is likely to be failed.

[cjb25hs]

That is super scary:eek: Fix It, the down tube needs to be replaced.

[rsportvolvo]

Not good! Replace as previously stated!

Additionally would you be willing to inform the group as to who did your cage work or who built the cage originally? It might save someone's neck!

[Spinnetti]

Few other comments...

I have side markers in the fender but not far from how the Probe lights are. If you tape them up, I doubt anybody will give you any problem, and if they do, its easy enough to pop them out.

The cage is definitely no good for several reasons. The crimp will probably kill you in a roll over and I can't imagine it passing tech. Recently I've seen a few good wrecks at the track which make me feel a whole lot less safe with IT cages, including a fairly minor hit where a tube sheared clean off.

Last bit is that in your picture, the left tube is welded to the A pillar. If this is an IT car, the cage has to be stand alone, and only contact the body at a maximum of 8 points - the 4 main ones, 2 rear stays and to footwell intrusion bars... (stupid rule IMO, but thats the way it is) Looks like there's some work to do there.

[John Herman]

One potential way to fix this, short of cutting the tube completely out and redoing it, would be to add a large "taco" gusset across the corner. But it's hard to see how much room you have with that bolted-in bracket there. In addition to the gussest, you could add a triangulating tube to go from the downtube to the door bar.

[Chip42]

don't "fix" it, replace it. even if you were to hide it behind a "taco" gusset, it's still a major weak point and we don't go out there to see ourselves and our friends get killed, especially when the cages should protect us. for your sake and the good of the club, PLEASE correct the problem and replace the tube.

and the additional weldments to the chassis, as noted, need to go away, too. who built this thing?

[Greg Amy]

Ouch, that's ugly. Technically, I don't think it's "illegal" to the prep rules, but it's certainly not "good".

Whoever did that needs a good swift kick to the nuts.

[joeg]

Gussett it. Properly done, that will be plenty strong.

Does it show with the dashboard installed?

[Greg Amy]

Additionally, is this an Improved Touring car? If so, that stitch-welding to the A-pillar is illegal.

I'd suggest finding a good tech inspector in your area to review that cage in its entirety. I'm guessing whoever built that did not know/understand the IT prep rules well.

GA

[NORRIS]

Also part of the problem here is becoming more common, it's a late model car with a steeply raked windshield. That increases the bend at the bottom of the A pillar and makes it less of a bend at the top of the A pillar. On my BMW we added a bar at about 45 degrees from your left shoulder area that runs up to the mid-point between the top of the A pillar and the main hoop. I've also seen cars that add a straight tube down from the top of the A pillar down to the front floor plate.

Also, isn't there supposed to be a cross bar? Those door beams aren't going to be much help without one.

[arpenn]

I would replace the down tube if it were my car. Safety is not an area to skimp on, it's not worth your life. A crimp in a tube becomes the weak point, and the point of failure in an accident. It looks to me like the builder either didn't have the correct die to make that sharp of bend or they tried to use a pipe bender instead of a tubing bender. If you paid someone to build the cage I would take it back and have a heart to heart talk with the builder. And as others have stated the cage can't be welded to the A-pillar. Good Luck!

[joeg]

John--The GCR does not require a "crossbar".

[betamotorsports]

I don't know of any tech inspector that will pass that bend regardless of how many gussets you weld in. Cut out the entire door hoop and replace it and fire whomever fabricated the cage.

[Speed Raycer]

Based on that one picture, I'd be suspect of the entire cage. Wouldn't surprise me if there were missing welds, ERW tube and other stitching. My guess is that the tube didn't fit so the builder made it fit rather than starting over. Has $400 circle track builder written all over it. I'd also guess that there's no weld on the "backside" of the doorbar, which is the reason for the stitch weld. Might as well post some pics of the rest of the cage so we can see if there are any other issues. If you paid good money for it, take it back. If it was in the car when you bought it, cut it out and start fresh.

[moe_1200]

I bought the car with the cage already in there however I do know who installed it. It was a quality shop that does a lot of nice so i'm not sure why they did this. Regardless the car wasn't built to SCCA regs so i'm going through and changing things. As far as the side bars being welded in like that I didn't think that was legal so I'll make sure to eliminate that. The rest of the cage seems to be ok to me but I'll let you guys be the judge of that. In these pictures there's only one side impact bar on the passenger side, I recently added another to make it legal (kinda wish I had waited if i'm replacing the down tubes)

[quadzjr]

I know that it is still in the mock up phase but rear strut tower bars are illegal as well in IT.

[Chip42]

since you are into it you might as well go through and measure all of the required member wall thicknesses and ensure they are in line with the GCR. you also might want to consider adding the gussets (tacos are popular and effective), foot protectors, and a petty bar (looks like you have provisions for a passenger seat - you can make the petty removable if you want to keep that provision).

[Spinnetti]

Youch..

Basic cage design looks ok, but "A" pillar issue, rear tower reinforcement and rear strut bar are illegal, and though hard to tell from the pictures, all of the welding looks bad. I used to be a professional welder, and those aren't. They don't appear to have anywhere near enough penetration - looks like they attempted to weld it with a 110v welder.... You may like the car or have gotten a deal, but my guess is that this car is going to cost you potentially much more to make legal, safe and right than you would starting from scratch.

[betamotorsports]

Picture 2 in post 16.

Looks like the harness bar wasn't notched where it meets the main hoop and the gap was filled with weld. A few other welds look similar and maybe weld bead was used to hide poor fitment.

Before you do any more work, call the local SCCA region and find a shop that does annual tech inspections. Take the chassis there and ask them to inspect the cage and get their opinion.