$515 for a 2 day regional at LRP

[Robert Zecca]

Guys,

Everyone is absolutely correct about costs at LRP. Thank you for spelling that out. The bottom line is LRP is a racers track, has history and most people love the place. Other places have zero character. The price is really not that high but I understand things are tough for some. Other clubs go there and pay the price no problem.

What we need to do is grow our sport, grow entrants and then costs can come down. We can talk all we want on this forum and others but lets try getting people involved. Look at SCCA years ago, there was no NASA, BMW or Porsche club racing. I was at Lime Rock this weekend and saw about 110 Porsches worth $40-160K and no junk. Why are these guys running with these clubs BECAUSE WE BLEW IT YEARS AGO. We as SCCA NEED TO DO A BETTER JOB AND WILL HAVE TO CHANGE FOR THE FUTURE OR WE WILL BE IN THE SAME BOAT. The more participants the more costs will go down. No easy solution but it can be done.

Sincerely,
Bob Zecca

[Andy Bettencourt]

Someone needs to examine 'the good ole' days. Was there SEVENTEEN points paying races for the NARRC Championship?

We need LESS EVENTS. We are diluting the customer base. We have more people racing but less racers per event. Tighten up supply and demand for individual races will grow. LRP can survive with the SCCA but not with 14 other events in the same year.

It hurts to give up something that we love but if 250 show up at LRP in 2010 because they only have 2 chances to go, that's better, no?

[lateapex911]

I was at Lime Rock this weekend and saw about 110 Porsches worth $40-160K and no junk. Why are these guys running with these clubs BECAUSE WE BLEW IT YEARS AGO. We as SCCA NEED TO DO A BETTER JOB AND WILL HAVE TO CHANGE FOR THE FUTURE OR WE WILL BE IN THE SAME BOAT. The more participants the more costs will go down. No easy solution but it can be done.

Sincerely,
Bob Zecca

Bob...I think that it's not entirely SCCAs fault. Sure, we have room for improvement, but there's more to it than that.

Quick story- my girlfriend was on a plane, and sat next to a guy..they chatted, and it came up that he was a Porsche owner and she learned he raced. She came back with all his info, and said it was odd that he got quiet when she asked how he did. Well, the race he said he had done the month previous was at Lime Rock, but it was October. We know PCACVR runs their LRP race in April, he didn't actually race..he did DEs. That's not the first time I've heard that, i've run into it myself. I know a couple guys who say they're "going racing" to their pals, but it's a DE.

We are seeing the marque clubs prosper because they cater to a very narrow audience. Guys who want to do DEs with other same marque guys, or guys who want to race against the same car, or one very similar. Lots of classes, lots of trophies. A 13/13 rule to protect the investment. A friend who runs PCA races avises me on my Porsche research and chukles when I remind him I won't do his "cheat" suggestion. I get the impression things are a little loose ruleswise there.

So the marque clubs are serving an audience that doesn't like the multi marque, strict rules adherance and hard racing approach of the SCCA.

Different markets. I know many of those guys just wouldn't enter an SCCA race in a zillion years, no matter what we do.

Agreed though, we can do better, and i applaud your and NNJRs efforts in that regard.

[gran racing]

We need LESS EVENTS.

I agree but the politics of this is gonna be tough. Which region give the date(s) up? In the past (maybe now still?) I thought it was odd that multiple regions host events at the same track versus one group is responsible for organizing events at one specific track.

What we need to do is grow our sport, grow entrants and then costs can come down. We can talk all we want on this forum and others but lets try getting people involved. Look at SCCA years ago, there was no NASA, BMW or Porsche club racing. I was at Lime Rock this weekend and saw about 110 Porsches worth $40-160K and no junk.

I'm not so sure people racing $40 - 160K Porsches are overly concerned with a $515 2 day event versus $415. That also goes to support the different markets theory Jake stated.

I still think one weak spot for SCCA is the often transition from Solo > PDX (umm...) > Club Racing. I totally understand the reasoning for bailing on doing the PDX that Friday before the race but at some point, SCCA as a whole needs to figure a way to get people into the sport and better utilize the PDX program. Maybe that means having one run group in a restricted regional (NHMS as an example, eliminate National elgible open wheel cars or at least combine groups) for PDX drivers. Or partner with existing DE organizations such as SCDA. Gotta give people a taste of the racing crack to get them hooked.

[Jeremy Billiel]

I agree but the politics of this is gonna be tough. Which region give the date(s) up? In the past (maybe now still?) I thought it was odd that multiple regions host events at the same track versus one group is responsible for organizing events at one specific track.

There is a lot of history there Dave, but the bottom line is NER owns the rights to LRP. NER, due to the kindness of their heart, decided years ago to let other regions use some of the LRP dates. (I am grossly oversimplifiying this). With that said you are also 100% correct that the politics here will/woudl be ugly.

[Andy Bettencourt]

There is a lot of history there Dave, but the bottom line is NER owns the rights to LRP. NER, due to the kindness of their heart, decided years ago to let other regions use some of the LRP dates. (I am grossly oversimplifiying this). With that said you are also 100% correct that the politics here will/woudl be ugly.

I am going to disagree here - slightly. MoHud and NNJ would probably GLADLY stop hosting LRP - because they actually risk the Regions financial LIFE in doing so. NER can take a hit every now and then but that can only happen so often. The one who would be really sour would be NYR - they have hosted the NARRC Runoff weekend for as long as I can remember - but like you said - because NER lets them.

If I were King in NER, I would tell the other regions that I was taking 2 weekends. The May school and single - and the NARRC Runoffs. If either of them wanted to risk finacial suicide by taking the June race, go for it - but I am still convinced that we need LESS EVENTS. Bring the NARRC series down to 12 and if that isn't enough racin' for you, grab a ProIT, NYSRRC, or NERRC event to fill your needs. 17 events at 6 tracks is just watering down a great product.

[Rabbit05]

my 2 cents...

If its more car counts you are looking for, you need to lower the cost of the entry fees.

I can't tell you how many guys I have talked to, or that love road racing , or, do auto crosses ,go and spectate, or all of the above . I tell them I did this at one point, everything seems feasable to them, UNTILL, I tell them it's $300 - $400 dollar just to get in the race..and they are more suprised when I tell them there is no purse , its all just for a plastic trophy. (and the for fun of racing)

I know some things are out of the SCCA's hands....but it is a deterant for me now to try to get back into it. IE, If you are just doing the saturday race $290 for MAYBE 30 minutes of track time. ( ~$100.oo per ten minutes)


What would happen if you made the Lime Rock race say $150 per car.....how many guys, from say the DC region...Penn...or even Ohio would come out for that ? Thats just the IT crowd we are talking about too...what about the other 5-6 groups per weekend?


-John

[Andy Bettencourt]

my 2 cents...

If its more car counts you are looking for, you need to lower the cost of the entry fees.


-John

It's a risk that could wipe out a Region. At $400 per car, you need 175 cars to cover $70K. At $150 per car, you need 466 cars. Guess what? That's 58 cars per run group in an 8 run group day. Impossible. Can't do it.

So if you MAX out each run group at a 'waivered' 42 cars, that is 336 cars. $208 each. Again, it's unlikely you could get more than 300 cars to an event. Say you did: $235 each would cover it.

Is THAT enough of an incentive to blow the lid off the entry packet?

Remember, Regions only charge what they NEED to, based on a forecast, to cover costs. Less money equals more demand for sure, but can it get low enough to accomplish what you are thinking? Not sure.

[rsx858]

SCCA as a whole needs to figure a way to get people into the sport and better utilize the PDX program. Maybe that means having one run group in a restricted regional (NHMS as an example, eliminate National elgible open wheel cars or at least combine groups) for PDX drivers. Or partner with existing DE organizations such as SCDA. Gotta give people a taste of the racing crack to get them hooked.

I agree our pdx program needs to be utilized... Yes PDX's are cheap and offer a lot of classroom instruction but frankly they dont compare to track days like PDA / SCDA with gobs of track time which is what most entrants are looking for. Having a PDX run group in conjunction with a regional is an exellent way to grow the club racing program.. get them running with scca early and hopefully they stick with the club..

I remember when i was first starting out I ran all my track days with nasa/pda because they had lots of dates and lots of track time...PDX's are scarce.

Repeated Classroom sessions are important for learning drivers, however lots of guys who are nearing the jump to club racing are experienced track day guys who like i said are mostly interested in track time... PDX just does not appeal to them when they can get double the time somewhere else.

[raffaelli]

I still think one weak spot for SCCA is the often transition from Solo > PDX (umm...) > Club Racing. I totally understand the reasoning for bailing on doing the PDX that Friday before the race but at some point, SCCA as a whole needs to figure a way to get people into the sport and better utilize the PDX program. Maybe that means having one run group in a restricted regional (NHMS as an example, eliminate National elgible open wheel cars or at least combine groups) for PDX drivers. Or partner with existing DE organizations such as SCDA. Gotta give people a taste of the racing crack to get them hooked.

Speaking first hand from experience, this works. After pitting next to race cars with my street car while doing a very limited DE during a MoHud regional in July several years ago at LRP...search for a race car started the next day.

[gran racing]

Matt, I think there should be different stages within SCCA's PDX program. One stage focuses on people totally new to track days. Another for more experienced drivers with a focus on lots of track time. Why can't it compare to PDA & SCDA in this respect? Then one focused on people interested in doing the w2w thing. That last stage might mean incorporate sessions in the standard PDX event, and some during a race weekend where the focus is on learning the ropes of racing. The NER is trying to start a mentor program, incorporate this. I recognize this would take a commitment by regions to complete. Don't want the risk of renting a track and not have enough people pay for it? Don't want to worry about volunteers and a different type of marketing? Have you seen how many events SCDA is hosting this upcoming year? Maybe buy one SCCA run group from them at various events? There are also several other DE programs out there where something similar might be possible.

[BruceG]

Watched a 914/6 last Friday go down the front straight past the emergency shack at LRP on fire like a comet! Went down the access road and they put him out. Blew some pistons and slammed the con rods into Skip's new pavement!

Then they tell their friends that they do some hot racing...LOL