Why is heat treating legal?
Why is heat treating legal?
Dave Webb
Bare Bones Racing
'84 VW GTI
#17 ITB
Dave:
Why would you question this one. It does not affect performance, and is strictly a matter of safety. Heat treating to prevent a stock part from failing would apply to ALL manufacturer items. So if your Vdub has a front spindle that snaps because of the loads placed on it, and you knew that you were riding a timebomb ... would you.
most comments regarding how often to replace are based on the calendar rather than the number of races or weekends. how many races a year are you running?
for those running a limited schedule (1-2 race weekends per year), how frequently would you recommend to replace hubs/bearings?
tia,
tom
p.s.
with regards to legality, when we buy replacement anythings, say brake rotors from NAPA, do we ask if they heat-treated according to the OEM specs? any one still buying cryo treated rotors?
if i am buying replacement hubs from someone, as long they meet the dimensional and basic alloy/material requirements (e.g., carbon steel and not an exotic chrome/moly, etc.), i think that should suffice.
if supplier x heat treats to a different hardness or stress relieves in a different temperature profile, that is their manufacturing process and not an issue, afaic.
1985 CRX Si competed in Solo II: AS, CS, DS, GS
1986 CRX Si competed in: SCCA Solo II CSP, SCCA ITA, SCCA ITB, NASA H5
1988 CRX Si competed in ITA & STL
With an extremely abbreviated schedule like that, I'd feel comfortable running them for 2-3 years. My "once a year" suggestion was based on 6-7 race weekends per year. My $0.02, YMMV, etc.
edit:
This is assuming that the 1-2 race weekends are super long Enduro's and/or that the driver doesn't pound over curbs too badly.
Christian in FL | Something white with Honda on the valve cover...
FASTtech Limited- DL1, Schroth, & Recaro Goodness
LTB Motorsports- The Cheapest Place for Momo
TrackSpeed Motorsports- OMP, Racetech, & Driver Gear
While this is true, Tom, it's still illegal, plainly and clearly.
You're modifying a stock part and, regardless of intent, that's illegal. There's no "...unless it's done for safety..." clause in the ITCS. Further, it doesn't fall under the 'alternative supplier' rules because a heat-treated part is not an "exact equivalent" to the stock item as is required by the rules.
Yeah, I'll grant you it's weenie, but it's a fact. I wouldn't protest someone for it - hell, I'd be hard-pressed to prove it, anyway - but desire, intent, and/or lack of "provability" does not make it legal.
Use your own conscience when choosing to run heat-treated parts, but please don't think you're legal...'cause you're not.
GA
Greg
What your saying here really can't work, since just as Tom91ita indicated, if what your saying the rule requires, than a driver would be required to purchase OEM only parts unless specifically stated. That means that you have to buy Honda part number xyz brake rotors instead of NAPA part number abc brake rotor. Or distrib. cap, or replacement brake caliper or fender, door panel, etc etc.
That was actually true up until around 2006 (?); however, at that time the rules were changed in the opening paragraphs to read:
Stock replacement parts may be obtained from sources other than the manufacturer provided they are the exact equivalent of the original parts.Note my emphasis. So, NAPA (or Autozone, or whatever) parts are now perfectly legal, even parts fabricated by Tom Blaney, should you decide to enter the parts-manufacturing market. However, per the rules those parts must be "the exact equivalent of the original parts." Since the original parts were not heat-treated in the manner you offer, these heat-treated parts are illegal.
Again Tom, I'm not saying it's a good or bad idea to do this from a technical or safety standpoint; I'm simply pointing out the letter - and intent - of the rules.
GA
Unfortunatly the same condition applies, a set of brake rotors from NAPA comes in 3 grades (econo, standard, and premium), and since all three do not use the same exact metal formula, in fact none are exact since they all have different machine styles and stamping.
But as you say, this is not a good or bad idea, but I would perfer to know that my wheels will still be attached at the bottom of the downhill. So I will still continue to offer the product.
Have fun.
Actually reliability is more like a financial asset, which means that if it costs less to run the car, than you can enter more events, the regions get more entry fees, and the racers get more people to race against.
However it winning is based on the other guy broke .... than it really doesn't matter what happens.
How would you protest a heat treated hub? What is the manufacturing methods of the OEM bearing to base the protest on? Last time I check SCCA regions didn't have a metallurgy lab at the track. Makes it bit difficult to be a weenie on this point.
David Russell
IT Volvo 242
I believe the orig post was where is a good place to get the hardened hubs?....where is a good place to get the OEM hubs? Anybody?
Last edited by BUMPnGO; 04-17-2009 at 12:55 AM.
The dealer is where most of the Honda guys I know go... you can also check online dealerships for better pricing.
Christian in FL | Something white with Honda on the valve cover...
FASTtech Limited- DL1, Schroth, & Recaro Goodness
LTB Motorsports- The Cheapest Place for Momo
TrackSpeed Motorsports- OMP, Racetech, & Driver Gear
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