ITA CRX hardened hubs

[85itcciviv]

Anybody have a source for these? I have been unable to get a response from Tom Blaney's email or website listed phone number and am quickly running out of time to find some before my season begins .

[Xian]

I know quite a few folks run OEM parts and just replace them annually... not sure who's offering hardened hubs anymore. I know OPM used to sell them... have you checked with them?

[Tom Blaney]

I've been here, call me at 845-987-0001, or [email protected]

Sorry you have trouble getting through.

[ITA_honda]

I too was looking for hardened hubs for my 1990 civic si.
No one has them. Ive tried everything....website, shops etc.
I contacted Scott and King Motorsports and he runs a CRX in ITA. He just replaces the hubs with OEM Honda ones and has never had a problem.

But I would strongly suggest changing them EVERY year.....

[spnkzss]

I too was looking for hardened hubs for my 1990 civic si.
No one has them. Ive tried everything....website, shops etc.
I contacted Scott and King Motorsports and he runs a CRX in ITA. He just replaces the hubs with OEM Honda ones and has never had a problem.

But I would strongly suggest changing them EVERY year.....

OEM every year on the front and every 2 years in the rear. Costs about the same as going hardened as I replace bearings EVERY year regardless. It also saves me from having to cut the race off the hub on the off year as hardened should last 2 years.

YMMV

[ITA_honda]

OEM every year on the front and every 2 years in the rear. Costs about the same as going hardened as I replace bearings EVERY year regardless. It also saves me from having to cut the race off the hub on the off year as hardened should last 2 years.

YMMV

oh yes, def. better to be safe than sorry.
when you brake a hub at the track, you're done. unless you have a press with you lol

[Tom Blaney]

Unfortunatly I have had stock oem's fail after a couple of races, the problem is the radius on the back side by the bearing seat.

Having the hubs heat treated is the only way to go safely. I have been doing this for a couple of years now, and I know that most of the guys will get a couple of years out of a set. Plus it is something else to put out of your mind when your coming out of a fast sweeper (like the downhill at Lime Rock under full tilt 4th, and the tire wall is calling your name ... again)

Bearings should be replaced annually. The rear hubs do not have the same radius problem and therefore I have not had to harden any of them, but the rear bearings need to be replaced annually as well, since most fast guys run a lot of rear camber it puts a high load on the bearings.

Unfortunalty the hubs are not cheap, and heat treating done properly is just the cost of doing business. The hubs are one of the few items that I really push my guys to do since a failure will come out of the blue.

[keycom]

Why is heat treating legal?

[Tom Blaney]

Dave:

Why would you question this one. It does not affect performance, and is strictly a matter of safety. Heat treating to prevent a stock part from failing would apply to ALL manufacturer items. So if your Vdub has a front spindle that snaps because of the loads placed on it, and you knew that you were riding a timebomb ... would you.

[tom91ita]

most comments regarding how often to replace are based on the calendar rather than the number of races or weekends. how many races a year are you running?

for those running a limited schedule (1-2 race weekends per year), how frequently would you recommend to replace hubs/bearings?

tia,

tom

p.s.

with regards to legality, when we buy replacement anythings, say brake rotors from NAPA, do we ask if they heat-treated according to the OEM specs? any one still buying cryo treated rotors?

if i am buying replacement hubs from someone, as long they meet the dimensional and basic alloy/material requirements (e.g., carbon steel and not an exotic chrome/moly, etc.), i think that should suffice.

if supplier x heat treats to a different hardness or stress relieves in a different temperature profile, that is their manufacturing process and not an issue, afaic.

[Greg Amy]

It does not affect performance, and is strictly a matter of safety.

While this is true, Tom, it's still illegal, plainly and clearly.

You're modifying a stock part and, regardless of intent, that's illegal. There's no "...unless it's done for safety..." clause in the ITCS. Further, it doesn't fall under the 'alternative supplier' rules because a heat-treated part is not an "exact equivalent" to the stock item as is required by the rules.

Yeah, I'll grant you it's weenie, but it's a fact. I wouldn't protest someone for it - hell, I'd be hard-pressed to prove it, anyway - but desire, intent, and/or lack of "provability" does not make it legal.

Use your own conscience when choosing to run heat-treated parts, but please don't think you're legal...'cause you're not.

GA

[Tom Blaney]

Greg

What your saying here really can't work, since just as Tom91ita indicated, if what your saying the rule requires, than a driver would be required to purchase OEM only parts unless specifically stated. That means that you have to buy Honda part number xyz brake rotors instead of NAPA part number abc brake rotor. Or distrib. cap, or replacement brake caliper or fender, door panel, etc etc.

[Greg Amy]

That was actually true up until around 2006 (?); however, at that time the rules were changed in the opening paragraphs to read:

Stock replacement parts may be obtained from sources other than the manufacturer provided they are the exact equivalent of the original parts.

Note my emphasis. So, NAPA (or Autozone, or whatever) parts are now perfectly legal, even parts fabricated by Tom Blaney, should you decide to enter the parts-manufacturing market. However, per the rules those parts must be "the exact equivalent of the original parts." Since the original parts were not heat-treated in the manner you offer, these heat-treated parts are illegal.

Again Tom, I'm not saying it's a good or bad idea to do this from a technical or safety standpoint; I'm simply pointing out the letter - and intent - of the rules.

GA

[Tom Blaney]

Unfortunatly the same condition applies, a set of brake rotors from NAPA comes in 3 grades (econo, standard, and premium), and since all three do not use the same exact metal formula, in fact none are exact since they all have different machine styles and stamping.

But as you say, this is not a good or bad idea, but I would perfer to know that my wheels will still be attached at the bottom of the downhill. So I will still continue to offer the product.

Have fun.

[Xian]

most comments regarding how often to replace are based on the calendar rather than the number of races or weekends. how many races a year are you running?

for those running a limited schedule (1-2 race weekends per year), how frequently would you recommend to replace hubs/bearings?

With an extremely abbreviated schedule like that, I'd feel comfortable running them for 2-3 years. My "once a year" suggestion was based on 6-7 race weekends per year. My $0.02, YMMV, etc.

edit:

This is assuming that the 1-2 race weekends are super long Enduro's and/or that the driver doesn't pound over curbs too badly.

[cchandler]

Dave:

It does not affect performance, and is strictly a matter of safety.

Safety yes; however, reliability is a competitive advantage.

[Tom Blaney]

Actually reliability is more like a financial asset, which means that if it costs less to run the car, than you can enter more events, the regions get more entry fees, and the racers get more people to race against.

However it winning is based on the other guy broke .... than it really doesn't matter what happens.

[rsportvolvo]

How would you protest a heat treated hub? What is the manufacturing methods of the OEM bearing to base the protest on? Last time I check SCCA regions didn't have a metallurgy lab at the track. Makes it bit difficult to be a weenie on this point.

[BUMPnGO]

I believe the orig post was where is a good place to get the hardened hubs?....where is a good place to get the OEM hubs? Anybody?

[Xian]

The dealer is where most of the Honda guys I know go... you can also check online dealerships for better pricing.