bit confused on washer bottle..

[Ron Earp]

So based on this, you can't use the washer bottle because it cannot be disabled.

I'd disagree. The washer bottle I have shown will still be 100% functional and is not disabled. It'll still spray washer fluid, or a slurry of washer fluid and oil in the case of the oil catching washer bottle.

[Gary L]

9.1.3.B Other than those specifically allowed by these rules, no component or part normally found on a stock example of a given vehicle may be disabled, altered, or removed.

I'm thinking the part I've underlined (which has gone unchanged for years) does give you the leeway to drill a hole, or perform any other work that may be necessary to mount a catch can, or weld a tow loop, or whatever. To paraphrase another oft-quoted mantra... If it says you must, you sure as Hell can.

[raffaelli]

I'd disagree. The washer bottle I have shown will still be 100% functional and is not disabled. It'll still spray washer fluid, or a slurry of washer fluid and oil in the case of the oil catching washer bottle.

Did the dealer provide oil in the washer fluid from the show room?

[Ron Earp]

Did the dealer provide oil in the washer fluid from the show room?

I don't know.

But I know the dealer didn't provide 100% water in the radiator, or synthetic oil in the engine, gearbox, or diff.

[Z3_GoCar]

I don't know.

But I know the dealer didn't provide 100% water in the radiator, or synthetic oil in the engine, gearbox, or diff.

Since Oil isn't mentioned in the ITCS, then it can't be changed, ergo you have to run the same oil that was in the crankcase when the car rolled off the showroom floor

Good luck finding that

found it for the piston engine, bu the rotory's have to run the same oil they came from the factory with, also transmission, differential oil, and as Ron mentioned, radiator fluid have to be the same.

Sounds like someone should protest the whole field including themselves.... I think I remember hearing about a similar protest at the run-offs in fp

[MMiskoe]

To paraphrase another oft-quoted mantra... If it says you must, you sure as Hell can.

That's not necessarily true. I can't 86 the dash simply on the merit that the roll cage gets in the way.

I'm still scratching my head about why 9.1.3B needed to be added. What its purpose is when we have other rules stating IIDSYCYC and an allowed change can't second handedly do something specifically not allowed.

[Spinnetti]

Well, that was a good discussion.. maybe production is really where I need to be after all... I'd love to ditch the junk and move the battery (had a car burn in a wreck due to the battery being out there in harms way). IT keeps drifting over the years (open ECU, coil overs, blah, blah) that sure didn't meet the intent, yet gets stupid a about stuff like heater cores and washer bottles..... I like a car to look like a car (especially on the outside) and like the old rules where you could take out carpet and headliner, but the rest stayed in, no coilovers, no ecu mods.......

Anyway, back on topic, looks like if you run the bottle, have water in it, but also dump your vent hose in the top it should be legal, if not the best way to serve that function. I currently have a "proper" catch can, mounted by the way in an existing bolt hole, but would rather just port it into the washer bottle. I guess it all depends on if somebody wants to get all anal with protests after the race results are in I guess.

[Z3_GoCar]

Spin,

I understand your frustrations. As I didn't do the inital prep to my car, there are several "details" that need to be addressed to be even close to IT legal. For example, even though my budget is tight I spent money for a heater core. I won't be hooking this up to anything just going to zip tie it under the dash because it shares the same compartment with the condensor coil for the AC and that can be removed, I'm not going to mess with finding more plastic under dash parts. I also feel for those who have the washer bottle smashed, then can't find one because they're all ancient plastic that turns to dust when handled. I like several of the same things about IT that you do, and also I think the no remote resevoir shocks/struts and DOT certified tires are two more points I like and that seperate IT from past and future production land. Really production has turned into the tub chassis version of GT, without the aero aids though. I think the tough economic times work to IT's favor, it's limits to the rules are still just restrictive enough to contain costs without having to have "factory" specials like SSx and Tx do.

[lateapex911]

Well, that was a good discussion.. maybe production is really where I need to be after all... I'd love to ditch the junk and move the battery (had a car burn in a wreck due to the battery being out there in harms way). IT keeps drifting over the years (open ECU, coil overs, blah, blah) that sure didn't meet the intent, yet gets stupid a about stuff like heater cores and washer bottles..... I like a car to look like a car (especially on the outside) and like the old rules where you could take out carpet and headliner, but the rest stayed in, no coilovers, no ecu mods.......

.........but would rather just port it into the washer bottle. I guess it all depends on if somebody wants to get all anal with protests after the race results are in I guess.

Every category will have it's positives and weaknesses.
In IT, stability and careful management are the cornerstones. Major changes are discussed with the membership via forums like this (I can find a half dozen ECU discussions here alone), and THEN put out for member comment.

Prod has historically been a "Rewards weight" category, except your reward might not be weight, it might be a smaller carb, or other mechanical change, OR, it could be a change to your competitor. AND it happens yearly, and in the past, without a consistent and repeatable process. Not to mention the stories of smoke filled backroom dealings...

Further, your category choice is affected by where you live, and your desires for competition. You might be able to campaign a Prod car competitively in certain parts of the country more inexpensively than an IT car, just because the pond is smaller and more stagnant. or vice versa....or, you might decide to swim in the bigger pond because you value competition.

But, apples to apples, I'd bet that IT returns more even competition for the dollar.

I think IT's popularity can be attributed to the reasonable nature of the ruleset (Not perfect, but a good balance of not too little and not too much), and the rules stabilty (It's not a year to year changine weight and specs category). Secondary reasons are, I think, the wide range of available car choices, and the rather transparent nature of the ITAC.

Your example about the battery above is something that can be rectified, (for the most part) by proper installation and a battery box, and it's occurrences are extremely rare. (Yours is the first I've heard where the car was seriously burned...or burned at all)

The coilover changes have been in place for sheeesh, 2 decades ..actually more now. Remember, technology changes, adn the category MUST adapt. The ITAC tries to adapt as painlessly as possible, but it won't ever be painless...that's the nature of the beast. Our number one concern is to be fair and consistent.

As for washer bottles and catch cans, mine is a catch can, the top is open and the hose is stuck in. (I think..maybe I drilled the top out.!?!?! Have to check) But, nobody is going to protest that in a million years guys! Really, it's a no issue.

Heck, the real stuff that I've seen going on takes forever to protest....if at all.

[spnkzss]

I have a washer bottle like shown in this thread. I keep the cap open and shove a hose in it. The hose doesn't even need to be zip tied. It's just tight enough that it hold it's self in. Now I plan on changing it this year as I dont' like the idea of some front and damage, which will destroy the bottle and drop oil right on my front tire. It's also a pain in the ass to empty. When I did it I was being a smart ass.

Now question of legality, I think it is, but I do question the "used for OTHER purposes" that we always bring up.

[callard]

Hmm...be careful with your vent hoses into the catch tanks. Some years ago we had crankcase and tranny vent hoses going into a large bottle near the radiator. Apparently a crew member mistook that bottle as a radiator overflow bottle. After returning from a 24 hour race at Moroso, we pulled the drain plug on the transmission and were surprised by a flood of bright green fluid before the gear lube flowed out. It seems that the combination of fluids and hoses created a siphon to the tranny and filled it with almost a quart of antifreeze. Amazingly, no harm to the box.
Chuck

[EV]

Hmm...be careful with your vent hoses into the catch tanks. Some years ago we had crankcase and tranny vent hoses going into a large bottle near the radiator. Apparently a crew member mistook that bottle as a radiator overflow bottle. After returning from a 24 hour race at Moroso, we pulled the drain plug on the transmission and were surprised by a flood of bright green fluid before the gear lube flowed out. It seems that the combination of fluids and hoses created a siphon to the tranny and filled it with almost a quart of antifreeze. Amazingly, no harm to the box.
Chuck

At least your transmission wouldn't freeze