More on tires. SRF Goodyears for IT.

[mossaidis]

I love these threads - reading them become religious experiences...

With minor mods (window clips, fire system, etc), a Golf can run in Prod classes and be legal on the SRF tires.

I think this is your *simple* answer. Yes really.

If tire cost control were a goal then maybe take a cue from auto-crossers and limit tire tread wear to greater than xxx.

Clap Clap.. there's merit in that statement and *NOT* (edit) just because I was an auto-crosser. I wonder if manufacturers would eventually change treadwear ratings and long wear if SCCA made a move like that.

...I drove the actual race car (also my street car) TO the track ON the ONE set of Toyo R tires I raced on, and slept on the ground at places like Watkins Glen, Lime Rock and NHIS.

Ditto... ah the memories.

[JohnRW]

Moreover, the GCR is very clearly - they cannot be mutually exclusive. Both conditions must hold. What part of the conjunction "and" do you not understand? If they didn't intend for both conditions to hold, there is a perfectly good conjunction that could have used "or".

You're avoiding acknowledging the difference between coordinating conjunctions and correlative conjunctions. If it's a coordinating conjunction, it CAN be mutually exclusive.

Why do I think it's a coordinating conjunction ? Easy...take out the "useful and" in the GCR statement:

"It is the intent of these rules to restrict modifications to those useful and necessary to construct a safe race car."

...would then become:

"It is the intent of these rules to restrict modifications to those necessary to construct a safe race car."

That language fits your interpretation...but that's not what the GCR says. Why is it written "useful and necessary" ? Because they're meant to be mutually exclusive. You might desperately want it to be a correlative conjunction (like a logical "and" statement), but there is no evidence that it's meant to be that way, and ample reason to think that it was purposely written to separate those two items.

You've tried too fine a parse here.

[JohnRW]

Moreover, the GCR is very clearly - they cannot be mutually exclusive. Both conditions must hold. What part of the conjunction "and" do you not understand? If they didn't intend for both conditions to hold, there is a perfectly good conjunction that could have used "or".

You have a different understanding of coordinating conjunctions than I do. Take out the "useful and" in the GCR statement:

"It is the intent of these rules to restrict modifications to those useful and necessary to construct a safe race car."

...would then become:

"It is the intent of these rules to restrict modifications to those necessary to construct a safe race car."

That second language fits your interpretation...but that's not what the GCR says. Why is it written "useful and necessary" ? Because the writers had the idea that "useful" and "necessary" were different definitions. You might desperately want it to be like a logical "and" statement, but there is no evidence that it's meant to be that way, and reason to think that it was purposely written to separate those two items. Your example of an "or" statement is...well...just plain silly.

You've tried too fine a parse here.

And once again, IT.com decends into mind-numbing effluvia.

[mustanghammer]

Dick, I don't think you get a vote on the Nobel Prize commitee

If tire cost control were a goal then maybe take a cue from auto-crossers and limit tire tread wear to greater than xxx.

Unfortunately this idea only worked for a little while. Originally there were some really cheap options for classes that ran tread wear limited tires. However several manufacturers starting building tires for the class and now these tires are not all that cheap. The do last longer than DOT R comp tires but the value is going away as the classes get more popular and the competition between tire companies heat up.

Sounds familar doesn't it.....

[lateapex911]

For many, the tire budget is somewhat manageable...buy the tires you need, use them until they aren't what you need, then sell them to folks looking to do testing, run on a limited budget, or find themselves able to win because the competitive realities in their area allow less than optimized setups.

For that to work, of course, the sizes need to be popular.

The second way of maximizing the use, is to mount the tires on an extra set of wheels and use them for learning new tracks, HPDEs where you're doing engine testing, or instructing, etc.

That requires up front investment in wheels. (another reason I'm not a fan of allowing classes to change wheel widths), but in the end the investment allows full use of the rubber, and helps the package go faster.

[Dano77]

um nevermind.:cool: