More on tires. SRF Goodyears for IT.

[Flyinglizard]

I have used the Spec Racer Ford tires for atleast 10 years now. Set lap record @ Sebring one time on free tires (2:44+-)Yokes)
I put a proposal up to allow the Goodyear treaded tires for IT cars that can run the 13in. They are not fast, but are very consistant and reasonably durable. Mike ran the school for three days on the Goodyears and than we switched to used Hoosiers. He went 1:29 , Goodyear, 1:27.2 on Hoosier. (ITB Golf)
The cost of the Hoosier is about $200per??
The cost 0f the Goodyear is $0 or 10 $per.
I will bring a car to the Summit point 12 hour , if we can run the cheap/ free tires.
In these days of zero cash racing , and small car counts,reducing the 800$ tire bill seems like a good idea.
PS, we always autocross on these and had zero failures, just lots of miles.
MM

[Andy Bettencourt]

The proposal has been received by the ITAC.

[dickita15]

Interesting idea. I assume the special consideration is required because the spec racer tires are not DOT stamped.

[JeffYoung]

It was unclear to me from the proposal if they are DOT stamped or not (by the way, I did my school on old SRF BFGs, hard as rocks). If they are, they are legal anyway, correct?

[Andy Bettencourt]

I cannot find any data that shows that they are DOT. I don't believe any of the tires on Goodyear's site are DOT currently.

[ekim952522000]

That's sounds like a great way to save money if you are on a tight budget.

[Andy Bettencourt]

How do you set a lap record on tires that are not fast?

[JohnRW]

Unlike previous SRF-spec tires, the Goodyear bias slick that is the current SRF tire is not a DOT tire. It's actually an asphalt short-track oval tire, kinda "re-purposed" by a different part # and addition of an "SCCA Spec Ford" marking on the sidewall. No tread...just a couple of radial grooves.

http://www.scca-enterprises.com/upda...nical_Info.pdf

[jumbojimbo]

Strike that free Yoko comment from the record. Making the point that FAST free Yokos are good is not a good support argument that SLOW free SRFs would be good for the class.

I was kinda confused by the other data. Reformatted to be readable it says:
Hoosier 1:27.2
SRF 1:29

Supports the arguement that SRF's are slower. Well, until people start chiming in about pressures and setup.

If it can be generally accepted that SRFs are slower than Hoosiers and Kumhos it sure would be nice to see this approved. I could run an extra event per year.

On the other hand, blah blah blah class philosphy blah blah blah. Meanwhile $20/gallon race gas is within class philosophy and $2 pump gas from down the street fails. Sigh.

[Flyinglizard]

The Goodyears are 22 in tall, about 7 in wide. Big ,tall, kinda "wobbly" by current DOT race tire standards. They are not DOT rated tires. This size also is a ministock tire.
The Hoosiers are 225/45/13, about 20.5in tall ,8in wide. Very soft.
129.5 = Goodyears
1:27.2 Hoosiers, Roebling Road.
Correct. Any of the DOT "race" tires are faster.
The Sebring lap on SRF Yokes is my claim to fame. Welded diff helps a lot @ Sebring, along with tons of laps.
We did a few Summit 12hr races, using only SRF tires.
MM

[lateapex911]

This strikes me as one of those deals that appears ok, on the surface, but there's lots of "Do we really know what we think we know?" issues, AND, it is precedent setting.

On the other hand, I bet people are using them already, and nobody gives two looks...

[Knestis]

How fast this particular tire is or isn't is not really the question. The question is whether we want to open the barn door and non-DOT tires out into the IT pasture.

And they don't cost 0$ - they cost $173 (from our friends at PhilsTireService.com - http://philstireservice.com/pages/ti...s_goodyear.htm).

K

[Flyinglizard]

There is plenty of good data already. Ask the SRF guys. The old Yoke 048 are a very little bit faster. The 048 are alot slower than the current DOT racer tires. The 048 are 205/60/13.
The Goodyears are 22in.tall, about the same OD as a 205/65/13.
I guess that it comes down adjusting to the real world.
Does SCCA want to allow a safe, slightly slower tire, so that more small time guys can run midpack and have a nice, cheap, decent weekend? Or do we want to squeeze these people out of club racing?
Those take off tires have to go somewhere, either to the dump or on my car. Think Green
I will provide grilled steaks to all that run the Goodyears,at the races that we run the ITB car. First gets a beer also.
Vote now, here, loudly. :>
MM

[Flyinglizard]

SRF tires only . Not other slicks.

[shwah]

If you limit it to SRF tires only, the only unintended consequence I can come up with is SRF changing to true racing slicks (which is admittedly unlikely). We have other special cases - Golf Cup cars, BMW fuel cells, 15" wheels.

That said, I'm not sure how big of a difference this will really make on true costs and entries.

[JeffYoung]

You guys need to reread Kirk's post (and Jake's). There is a foundational issue here, and that is do we start allowing non-DOT tires into the mix. While this particular instance may not have any unforeseen consequences (and it may actually have them, we just don't know), it sets a bad precedent in my view.

We have a simple straightforward rule and no (in my view) real justification for braving the unknown circumstances of changing it.

[Andy Bettencourt]

I am sure there is a DOT tire that isn't great in overall grip but lasts long. Avons? Nittos? RA1's? The REAL solution to the cost premise here is to do a one-time upgrade to 15" wheels and make 5 buddies in Spec Miata and use their take offs.

Another problem with allowing a tire like this is that you become a slave to the rules of another class. What if they change the compound and they become FASTER than they are now? Are you doing to know that? Are you going to outlaw them at that time? Are you going to only allow certain build dates?

It is a bad answer to a question nobody is asking IMHO.

[JoshS]

And they don't cost 0$ - they cost $173 (from our friends at PhilsTireService.com - http://philstireservice.com/pages/ti...s_goodyear.htm).

Hmm. Looks like a Hoosier of roughly the same size (205/60-13) is $172.

Yes, I understand that some people think it's easier to find used, but still useful, SRF tires than it is to find used, but still useful Hoosiers, but really, is this going to make much of a difference?

Allowing in ONE tire that's available in ONE size, that has the same new cost as a Hoosier R6, how much of a difference could it really make?

[lateapex911]

Does SCCA want to allow a safe, slightly slower tire, so that more small time guys can run midpack and have a nice, cheap, decent weekend? Or do we want to squeeze these people out of club racing?

MM

Hold on, that's just a bunch of BS posturing, and you know it. Sorry.

Do you mean to tell me that you can't buy used tires from one of thousands of racers that are just as fast (or slow)?

I've got dozens of old 7 cycle or so tires sitting in my basement. I'd LOVE to sell them, and i know there are bunches of guys like me.

"Squeeze people out of racing"?

Please.......

[Mike Guenther]

I have been racing on used Hoosier take offs for over a year now. My best tires are at least 18 months old. I have take offs from Pete E and from Bruce S. In years past I've bought plenty of used Hoosiers and maybe a few Toyos from Mike VS. He has a whole garage stacked up with them in very good condition.

The point is that the SRF tires are not free until someone gives you their used ones. If you want cheap tires there are plenty of good used ones out there that are IT legal. Tons of them. So why change the rule? If you want to buy the SRF tires and use them for track days and maybe practice sessions to save your race tires for qualifying and races, then do that. But stay legal with DOT tires that meet the rules when you qualify and race.

I have been thinking about breaking down and buying my first set of new tires in 21 months. Now I'm thinking about saving the money and getting another set of used. Kip, whatcha got in 15's?