Page 3 of 12 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 230

Thread: Teach me about ITR 325's

  1. #41
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    cromwell ct
    Posts
    746

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JoshS View Post
    metal brake caliper bushings are legal for SCCA racing. Yeah? Well, not for IT!

    What part of 'bushings are free' am I misunderstanding?

    R
    Rob Breault
    BMW 328is #36
    2008 Driving Impressions Pro-ITA Champion
    2008 NARRC DP Champion
    2009 NARRC ITR Champion
    2009 Team DI Pro-ITR Champion

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    1,717

    Default

    Josh,

    Something completly analouguos, that I know about. Does the TIS for the Z3 have the factory proceedure for fixing a cracked differential mount? I know that I've seen several where the dealer will weld a second mount over the first. However, it seems the dealer has to bring in an rep to tell them how to perform the repair, thus avoiding the documentation and resulting liability if something goes wrong with the repair. Maybe it's a similar kind of situation... non-documented dealer/factory repairs.

    James
    STU BMW Z3 2.5liter

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    7,347

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Bro View Post
    What part of 'bushings are free' am I misunderstanding?
    The part about them being under the category rules for suspension...?

    Of course, if we're agreeing that any bushing that suspends anything is free, let me know...'cause you ain't gonna like the results...just sayin'...

    GA, who's really hoping our BMW friends are not replacing their rubber caliper bushings with anything non-rubber...

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Silicon Valley, CA
    Posts
    1,381

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Z3_GoCar View Post
    Josh,

    Something completly analouguos, that I know about. Does the TIS for the Z3 have the factory proceedure for fixing a cracked differential mount? I know that I've seen several where the dealer will weld a second mount over the first. However, it seems the dealer has to bring in an rep to tell them how to perform the repair, thus avoiding the documentation and resulting liability if something goes wrong with the repair. Maybe it's a similar kind of situation... non-documented dealer/factory repairs.

    James
    I've never seen any acknowledgement by BMW for the diff mount/trunk floor problem, just like I've never seen anything for the E36 problem.

    Therefore, such a dealer-installed repair would not be legal in IT, even if a verbal agreement with a BMWNA employee allowed BMWNA to pay for the repair.
    Josh Sirota
    ITR '99 BMW Z3 Coupe

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    cromwell ct
    Posts
    746

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Amy View Post
    The part about them being under the category rules for suspension...?

    Of course, if we're agreeing that any bushing that suspends anything is free, let me know...'cause you ain't gonna like the results...just sayin'...

    GA, who's really hoping our BMW friends are not replacing their rubber caliper bushings with anything non-rubber...

    Mine are stock, but I thought this went back and forth several years ago...with the end interpretation being bushings are free. I could be mistaken. I thought it was around the whole spherical "bushings" and "air bushing" era.

    From the GCR;
    bushing- a sleeve or tubular insert, whose purpose is to reduce the dimension(s) of an existing hole. A protective liner that cushions noise, friction, or movement such as a rod end or spherical bearing.

    The suspension section clearly states bushing material is unrestricted as we all know.

    The brake section states that brake linings are unrestricted....what's the difference between a liner and a lining?:cool: Brake connectors are unrestricted. Isn't a connector something that "connects" the something to something else? As in the caliper to the car? Seeing how lining and connector aren't defined in the GCR I'm unsure.

    I think this subject is pretty gray...as I stated before mine are stock so don't be a hater....just posing a counterpoint.

    R
    Rob Breault
    BMW 328is #36
    2008 Driving Impressions Pro-ITA Champion
    2008 NARRC DP Champion
    2009 NARRC ITR Champion
    2009 Team DI Pro-ITR Champion

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Silicon Valley, CA
    Posts
    1,381

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Bro View Post
    Mine are stock, but I thought this went back and forth several years ago...with the end interpretation being bushings are free. I could be mistaken. I thought it was around the whole spherical "bushings" and "air bushing" era.

    From the GCR;
    bushing- a sleeve or tubular insert, whose purpose is to reduce the dimension(s) of an existing hole. A protective liner that cushions noise, friction, or movement such as a rod end or spherical bearing.

    The suspension section clearly states bushing material is unrestricted as we all know.

    The brake section states that brake linings are unrestricted....what's the difference between a liner and a lining?:cool: Brake connectors are unrestricted. Isn't a connector something that "connects" the something to something else? As in the caliper to the car? Seeing how lining and connector aren't defined in the GCR I'm unsure.

    I think this subject is pretty gray...as I stated before mine are stock so don't be a hater....just posing a counterpoint.

    R
    I find that all to be a ridiculously tortured interpretation.

    A brake lining is the actual brake pad/shoe material. The "connector" being referred to is the hydraulic connector. That entire paragraph is about hydraulics. Context matters.

    Not even remotely gray in my opinion.
    Josh Sirota
    ITR '99 BMW Z3 Coupe

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Northeast
    Posts
    7,031

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JoshS View Post
    I find that all to be a ridiculously tortured interpretation.

    A brake lining is the actual brake pad/shoe material. The "connector" being referred to is the hydraulic connector. That entire paragraph is about hydraulics. Context matters.

    Not even remotely gray in my opinion.
    +1.
    Andy Bettencourt
    New England Region 188967

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    7,347

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JoshS View Post
    Not even remotely gray in my opinion.
    But if it is, please do let me know ASAP.

    GA

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    cromwell ct
    Posts
    746

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JoshS View Post
    I find that all to be a ridiculously tortured interpretation.

    A brake lining is the actual brake pad/shoe material. The "connector" being referred to is the hydraulic connector. That entire paragraph is about hydraulics. Context matters.

    Not even remotely gray in my opinion.

    But Josh those are YOUR definitions not the GCR's, The GCR doesn't define these things so variability (creep) gets introduced.

    SoI guess the ITAC guys get to decide what's rediculously tortured...
    Let's go back to "air as a bushing" and truly talk about what's tortured.

    R
    Rob Breault
    BMW 328is #36
    2008 Driving Impressions Pro-ITA Champion
    2008 NARRC DP Champion
    2009 NARRC ITR Champion
    2009 Team DI Pro-ITR Champion

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Silicon Valley, CA
    Posts
    1,381

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Bro View Post
    But Josh those are YOUR definitions not the GCR's, The GCR doesn't define these things so variability (creep) gets introduced.

    SoI guess the ITAC guys get to decide what's rediculously tortured...
    Of course these are all just my opinions. In my current role I don't get to decide this stuff. But in the past I have served on both protest and appeals committees, and I know how the committees that I have served on would have interpreted these situations. I think that 99 out of 100 appeals committees would agree with me. Unfortunately, too often, these things never get protested/appealed.

    That past experience is part of why I have such a conservative read on the allowances.
    Josh Sirota
    ITR '99 BMW Z3 Coupe

  11. #51
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Northeast
    Posts
    7,031

    Default

    Oye. Looks like it's time to tear some cars down in NER.
    Andy Bettencourt
    New England Region 188967

  12. #52
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    cromwell ct
    Posts
    746

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by andy Bettencourt View Post
    oye. Looks Like It's Time To Tear Some Cars Down In Ner.

    +100

    While were at it we should clean up the on track antics as those have gotten out of hand too.

    R
    Last edited by Doc Bro; 02-15-2009 at 08:26 PM.
    Rob Breault
    BMW 328is #36
    2008 Driving Impressions Pro-ITA Champion
    2008 NARRC DP Champion
    2009 NARRC ITR Champion
    2009 Team DI Pro-ITR Champion

  13. #53
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    alexandria, va
    Posts
    850

    Default

    yee ha! another e36 hater thread! harkens back to the good old days when we ran unrestricted in ITS! :P

    as an e36 racer though, the metal replacement bushing for the brake calipers are NOT legal in ITS. they ain't brake linings and they certainly ain't part of the suspension.

  14. #54
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Tijeras, NM
    Posts
    579

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Bro View Post
    I think this subject is pretty gray...
    Ridiculous. Not even remotely legal, or gray.

  15. #55
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Tijeras, NM
    Posts
    579

    Default

    Oh come on.. those bushings suspend the calipers right? Give me a break. Anyone remember when they tried to justify internal coatings because they were "lubricants"? That didn't fly either.

  16. #56
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    alexandria, va
    Posts
    850

    Default

    some folk have trouble wih engish. suspend as a verb vs. the gcr use of suspension as a noun...

  17. #57
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Northern, CA
    Posts
    217

    Default

    Does anyone have a link to the bushings you guys are talking about?
    Mike Uhlinger



  18. #58
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Silicon Valley, CA
    Posts
    1,381

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ekim952522000 View Post
    Does anyone have a link to the bushings you guys are talking about?
    Here you go Mike:

    http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html...ODUCT_ID=CBMW1

    The issue is that all of these cars have single-piston sliding calipers, and the caliper slides on metal pin, but with a rubber bushing. The brake can feel really squishy and cause uneven pad wear due to the flexibility in the rubber, especially as the pads get low and the piston is extended.

    These metal replacements are very common for track cars and BMWCCA club racing.
    Josh Sirota
    ITR '99 BMW Z3 Coupe

  19. #59
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Raleigh NC
    Posts
    3,682

    Post

    Quote Originally Posted by JoshS View Post
    The issue is that all of these cars have single-piston sliding calipers, and the caliper slides on metal pin, but with a rubber bushing. The brake can feel really squishy and cause uneven pad wear due to the flexibility in the rubber, especially as the pads get low and the piston is extended.
    Oh my goodness!!!

    You mean the designers of The Ultimate Driving Machine have made an engineering error that leads to their creation having a perceived flaw for track use?

    No way, I don't believe it. All the BMW Club track days start out with "Your BMW was born and bred for the track, it'll be fine to use just as is...."

    Heaven forbid we get uneven pad wear and a really squishy pedal.....Jeez, I wish that was all I had to worry about on my IT dinosaur.

  20. #60
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    cromwell ct
    Posts
    746

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GKR_17 View Post
    Oh come on.. those bushings suspend the calipers right? Give me a break. Anyone remember when they tried to justify internal coatings because they were "lubricants"? That didn't fly either.

    And air as a bushing is justifiable in your mind....give me a break. Is air then justifiable as a washer bottle or wiring harness in your mind?

    R
    Rob Breault
    BMW 328is #36
    2008 Driving Impressions Pro-ITA Champion
    2008 NARRC DP Champion
    2009 NARRC ITR Champion
    2009 Team DI Pro-ITR Champion

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •