Senior Member
Coupe or sedan will be equal performance. Some prefer the sedan as the B pillar ends up being about even with your shoulder so the theory is greater side impact protection. Best aspect of a good donor is no rust. Where the rear sub-frame attaches should be repaired (many rip out) and having rust there will make this a miserable job.
How's that.
Last edited by robits325is; 02-13-2009 at 03:10 PM.
Rob Driscoll
ITS 25
NER
Junior Member
That be betterOriginally Posted by robits325is
Kinda like "may" and "shall"... Subtle yet quite different.
Senior Member
Sorry Ron, I know I shouldn't start. But, this one always irked me.
Did the cars come from the fact with the reinforcement or not?
If not, illegal.
Everytime this starts, we get a BMW guy first say "you should reinforce the subframe mounts" which after being pointed out as illegal, becomes "it's just a repair."
If it never came from the factory reinforced, it's illegal. The reinforcement kit, OEM or not, is illegal. If you are repairing it back to teh way it was when it came from the factory, that is legal.
NC Region
1980 ITS Triumph TR8
Junior Member
Yes, they came from the factory "reinforced", the part used is intended to bring older or damaged cars to factory spec. Also see my edited post above.
Senior Member
Hmm maybe the E36 has bigger problems then I thought.
Jeff does that still apply if the factory has a recall on a car to change something? I would think that would become the new way a car is supposed to be fixed.
Mike Uhlinger
Senior Member
This thing has been hashed out here endlessly before. I'll give you my two cents on this, take it for what it is worth.
E36s have subframe mount issues. It's something that needs to be looked at on a regular basis, and probably proactively repaired, not reinforced. This is like many cars that have a weakspot/weakness.
However, it's become a de facto standard on E36 track cars of all flavors (NASA, BMWCCA, etc.) to reinforce the rear subframe mounts -- the old "everybody does it" argument. The argument is bolstered by claims that (a) this was done by the factory as part of a recall or (b) later E36s came with the reinforcement plate from the factory.
One at a time. On the latter point, no one has ever provided evidence of a 325is E36 coming from the factory with the plate. The anecdotal evidence suggests that it was installed only on late E36 328s and M3s. Click here:
http://www.bimmerwerkz.com/forum/3-s...ame-48392.html
If the anecdotal evidence is true; illegal.
On the former point, apparently BMW would take a look at the subframe mount and in some cases use the reinforcement plates but if the mount was in good shape, they wouldn't touch it. So, it wasn't a true recall in the sense that ALL cars were called in and retrofitted. The argument here is that "since the factory repairs it this way, I can" but in my view the GCR doesn't allow that since the car never came from the factory that way.
So it goes. I would never protest a BMW over this, but it does irk me, especially when the safety card gets played, because by spending dollars checking the mounts and repairing them legally and correctly -- i.e. spending money -- back to stock you will be just fine.
Last, full disclosure, I started racing in 2004 at the height of the unrestricted 325is E36 dominance in ITS, and I'm still smarting from that...215 rwhp and 2850........yikes.......so I'm not entirely unbiased.
NC Region
1980 ITS Triumph TR8
Junior Member
Again, a repair not a reinforcement; very different meaning and the wrong word used in my initial text. And as in the edit of my previous post, from the GCR:
h. All chassis/structural/electrical repair, if performed, shall be in concurrence with factory procedures, specifications, and dimensions. Unless specifically authorized by the manufacturer for repair or allowed by these rules, no reinforcement, i.e., seam welding, material addition, etc., is permitted.
Rusted/weakend/torn bit cut out, OEM repair part welded in. Does this not meet GCR section above? And keep in mind we are talking about a few sq inch flat plate replacing an existing piece of flat metal plate. The point of the repair is to better spread the load of the weld nut in the improved design to the frame where it is mounted to prevent it from ripping out along with the rear suspension. This simply allows the mounting point to operate, as designed, and does not improve performance.
So perhaps I am confused in the sense that this offers no performance improvement and meets the GCR so why all the consternation?
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