Teach me about ITR 325's

[benspeed]

I suppose my comment should be for a rules thread, not wholehearted support for building 325 ITR/S cars and making them safer. These bimmers are great and I've always flirted with racing one. Drove a bunch on the track and it's tops.

So to the issue on the rear subframe mount (which alone sounds terrifying to somebody not familiar). To the extent this is a safety issue where its known to fail and one of our friends and fellow racers gets hurt because they didn't make repair, know how to inspect or didn't know about the issue. Wouldn' all of us feel like shitheads?

Selfish perspective mode on - I'm now firmly in the Porsche camp and the known ball joint/control arm failure issue exists for the 944/968 cars. I know three SCCA drivers involved in serious wrecks in top cars because of this. I can't do anything for that other than the planned rotation of two sets of stock control arms and detailed inspection. What a pain in the ass that'll be!

How would you guys feel if I got hurt because despite my rigor in maintaining and inspecting the control arms and ball joints on my new 968? I'd prefer to replace the stock with arms with the aftermarket units that provide no advantage but are designed for the lowered height of a race car. That'll never happen. I do hallucinate alot but not that bad...


In my opinion fellow racers should forgiving of a known safety issue. It will be clear to a reasonable person if a competition advantage is being sought and gained. Like using fully adjustable control arms in replacment of stock....

[JeffYoung]

This is going to sound cold, but it's not meant that way.

I have intermitten complete brake caliper failures despite changing calipers 3-4 times a season. What a pain in the ass that is! Should I be allowed altenative calipers and big vented discs as a result?

The front wheel bearing on my car, outer, is maybe the size of a silver dollar. It fails. I change them pretty much every 2 weekends. I still on occasion have them fail, and I lost a hub at CMP (and all brakes as it "kicked the pads back" as the hub/rotor flailed around) and nearly went into the turn 14 wall. What a pain in the ass that is! ShouldI be allowed a better hub and bearing assembly (easily available) as a result?

My transmission routinely - every 18 months or so -- loses all gears except 5 (I break shift pins). I try to change trannies every 18 months or so, what a pain in the ass that is!

Ben, always liked your posts and look forward to meeting you, but your statements below -- what a pain in the ass maintenance is! and give me an allowance because I might get hurt -- are the precise reason we CANNOT do what you suggest.

Make your car choice knowingly. Deal with teh warts. We can all have trouble on track, and that is not a reason to give any car a "safety" allowance when pain in the ass! maintenance will resolve MOST of the safety issues.

I suppose my comment should be for a rules thread, not wholehearted support for building 325 ITR/S cars and making them safer. These bimmers are great and I've always flirted with racing one. Drove a bunch on the track and it's tops.

So to the issue on the rear subframe mount (which alone sounds terrifying to somebody not familiar). To the extent this is a safety issue where its known to fail and one of our friends and fellow racers gets hurt because they didn't make repair, know how to inspect or didn't know about the issue. Wouldn' all of us feel like shitheads?

Selfish perspective mode on - I'm now firmly in the Porsche camp and the known ball joint/control arm failure issue exists for the 944/968 cars. I know three SCCA drivers involved in serious wrecks in top cars because of this. I can't do anything for that other than the planned rotation of two sets of stock control arms and detailed inspection. What a pain in the ass that'll be!

How would you guys feel if I got hurt because despite my rigor in maintaining and inspecting the control arms and ball joints on my new 968? I'd prefer to replace the stock with arms with the aftermarket units that provide no advantage but are designed for the lowered height of a race car. That'll never happen. I do hallucinate alot but not that bad...


In my opinion fellow racers should forgiving of a known safety issue. It will be clear to a reasonable person if a competition advantage is being sought and gained. Like using fully adjustable control arms in replacment of stock....

[Spinnetti]

This is going to sound cold, but it's not meant that way.

I have intermitten complete brake caliper failures despite changing calipers 3-4 times a season. What a pain in the ass that is! Should I be allowed altenative calipers and big vented discs as a result?

The front wheel bearing on my car, outer, is maybe the size of a silver dollar. It fails. I change them pretty much every 2 weekends. I still on occasion have them fail, and I lost a hub at CMP (and all brakes as it "kicked the pads back" as the hub/rotor flailed around) and nearly went into the turn 14 wall. What a pain in the ass that is! ShouldI be allowed a better hub and bearing assembly (easily available) as a result?

My transmission routinely - every 18 months or so -- loses all gears except 5 (I break shift pins). I try to change trannies every 18 months or so, what a pain in the ass that is!

Ben, always liked your posts and look forward to meeting you, but your statements below -- what a pain in the ass maintenance is! and give me an allowance because I might get hurt -- are the precise reason we CANNOT do what you suggest.

Make your car choice knowingly. Deal with teh warts. We can all have trouble on track, and that is not a reason to give any car a "safety" allowance when pain in the ass! maintenance will resolve MOST of the safety issues.

Lol... S*&t man, you are lucky that's all driving a british car! We pays our money and takes our chances... IT is way too rule crazy.

[JLawton]

IT is way too rule crazy.

You think so??? Go onto the Prod sites. That whole thing is insane!!

It really isn't crazy, it's just that people try to twist the rules to fit their need. Yeah, there's some silly things but they're all meant to keep IT from turning into Prod.



The bottom line on the original request: The BMW is a great car. Solid, reliable, proven winner, lots of good information and lots of after market support. You won't be kicking yourself in two years becasue the car is uncompetative.




.

[Spinnetti]

You think so??? Go onto the Prod sites. That whole thing is insane!!

It really isn't crazy, it's just that people try to twist the rules to fit their need. Yeah, there's some silly things but they're all meant to keep IT from turning into Prod.



The bottom line on the original request: The BMW is a great car. Solid, reliable, proven winner, lots of good information and lots of after market support. You won't be kicking yourself in two years becasue the car is uncompetative.
.

Yeah, I'm thinking about one too actually after decades trying to stay up front with a non-front running type car. Almost seems a sellout to run what everybody else does though! I saw several comments about VANOS - is it 93 and up or 94 and up I should be looking for?

As to rules, I'm contrasting IT where people complain if a windshield washer nozzle is aimed at 5 vs. 6 degrees to the "Lemons race" where anything goes, yet somehow, the competition is still pretty even.. believe it or not, I've been finding Lemons more fun, and am doing two events this year.

[tnord]

i'd run one, i think.

before i did it i would want to find out just how long one can expect to go before the subframe mounts need to be cut out and new pieces welded in. i'd want to know what that costs, and how hard the necessary parts (OEM factory installed!!!!) are to come by. if it's reasonable, i would then move on to finding the weight/power balance i thought was best for ITR. i know the thread title says "325" but i'd look very hard at what the 328 weight is, and find out what the restriction point is in both motors. the 325 should be easier because the development has been done for ITS, but the extra displacement of the 328 might provide a torque advantage that suits your local tracks better.

my final question would be....what line of work are you in that you're building a new ITR BMW right after an ITR Prelude, and are you hiring?!

[ekim952522000]

i'd run one, i think.

before i did it i would want to find out just how long one can expect to go before the subframe mounts need to be cut out and new pieces welded in. i'd want to know what that costs, and how hard the necessary parts (OEM factory installed!!!!) are to come by. if it's reasonable, i would then move on to finding the weight/power balance i thought was best for ITR. i know the thread title says "325" but i'd look very hard at what the 328 weight is, and find out what the restriction point is in both motors. the 325 should be easier because the development has been done for ITS, but the extra displacement of the 328 might provide a torque advantage that suits your local tracks better.

my final question would be....what line of work are you in that you're building a new ITR BMW right after an ITR Prelude, and are you hiring?!

Does the 328 have the same rear subframe issue? f it does the 325 makes more sense to me if it does not then maybe the 328 is the way to go. Used version of each can be found for close to the same price.

[mlytle]

i'd run one, i think.

before i did it i would want to find out just how long one can expect to go before the subframe mounts need to be cut out and new pieces welded in. i'd want to know what that costs, and how hard the necessary parts (OEM factory installed!!!!) are to come by. if it's reasonable, i would then move on to finding the weight/power balance i thought was best for ITR.

they don't all do this. what drives the subframe failure is not replacing bushings when they wear out. the stock bushings are rubber. when they get old they loosen up and allow the subframe to move a little. this movement gradually flexes the mounting studs at the passeger side front first. the constant flexing causes the metal in the chasisis around the stud to fail. if you get a car that shows no signs of failure and put solid/urethane bushings in, you are good to go. if the flex has started, repair is needed. the repair is the installation of the factory plates that weld on around where the mounting studs/bolts go into the chassis. the plates are readily available at any dealer or place like bimmerworld. they are cheap too, like $20. the cost comes in labor to drop the subframe and weld the plates on, if you don't do this yourself. it really isn't that hard. nor is it necessarily required.