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Thread: Teach me about ITR 325's

  1. #221
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    I think the easiest way to look at this is stock parts are legal on items that you MAY modify or substitute such as the s2000 shocks. All IT cars require some modification. You SHALL install safety equipment. You SHALL remove ABS. You SHALL secure sunroofs.
    dick patullo
    ner scca IT7 Rx7

  2. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Bettencourt View Post
    It [actually] says that "a front spoiler / airdam is PERMITTED.
    So is a stock left front fender...what are the restrictions on those? And, if it's intended to affect stock parts, why is it listed in the rules?

    I think reasonable people could argue this as grey in that if you are going to use one, it has to meet the spec in the ITCS - stock or not.
    IIDSYCTYC.

    The Roffe Corollary: "If it says you can, you bloody well CAN!"

    New Amy Corollary: "If it doesn't say you have to change/remove/modify it, then you don't."

    My only issue is that it would be really hard to know every limited production car on every spec line.
    But that's your responsibility as a rulesmaker, Andy. If you're unsure, then label it "Tabled for Research". And if you subsequently find loopholes that weren't what you intended, it's your responsibility to change it.

    GA
    Not my circus...not my monkeys...

  3. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Amy View Post

    But that's your responsibility as a rulesmaker, Andy. If you're unsure, then label it "Tabled for Research". And if you subsequently find loopholes that weren't what you intended, it's your responsibility to change it.

    GA
    And you aren't telling us anything we don't know and do if we think its appropriate. We do all the things you expect - but it's easy to Monday-morning QB the MT issue. Most Bimmer people don't even know the car exists. And even knowing what we know, it's debateable if it should be delisted.

    Like I have stated, the bigger issue is limited production cars, what defines them and how do we deal with them at classifiation.
    Last edited by Andy Bettencourt; 03-10-2009 at 09:06 AM.
    Andy Bettencourt
    New England Region 188967

  4. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Bettencourt View Post
    Can't find any good pics of my E36 M3 so I can't verify the lower lip and it's legality (Lawton - quick look at yours?) but I will say this:

    I do NOT think it's ok to take that lower lip off. Parts that are UD/BD are supposed to be done so as an assembly. Picking and choosing pieces and parts on that bumper cover I would say is illegal.
    Andy,
    The E36 M3 front bumper cover is the exact same as the M Technic front bumper.

    Does your statement mean that I can put on the black splitter piece and be legal?

  5. #225
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    [quote=Andy Bettencourt;284358]Most Bimmer people don't even know the car exists.

    quote]


    Most Bimmer people call them BEEMER's which is a BMW Motorcycle (Bimmer is the car), let alone know about the MT.

    And, yes Dan, it sounds to me like the lip would be a stock part and can be legally added.

    R
    Rob Breault
    BMW 328is #36
    2008 Driving Impressions Pro-ITA Champion
    2008 NARRC DP Champion
    2009 NARRC ITR Champion
    2009 Team DI Pro-ITR Champion

  6. #226
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    At this point, ANY discussion about what is or is not legal is open to interpretation through the protest and appeals process.

    This conversation (speaking for myself only, of course) is useful as a case study to help us figure out how best to do ITAC business but it should most certainly NOT be considered a clarification of what is or is not legal.

    K

  7. #227
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    And, yes Dan, it sounds to me like the lip would be a stock part and can be legally added.

    R[/quote]

    Oh Goodie!!!!!! a .025 lb of extra down force.

  8. #228
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    What I am saying Dan is that this is for sure an interesting case study. I see it in ways that don't mesh:

    1. I don't think you can legally take off the lip. If you are going to UD/BD, I feel the ITCS is clear that you have to do it as an assembly.

    2. If the resultant unit is outside the paramters of what can be done when you create one on your own - should the stock piece be legal?

    3. If no to #2, then should this car be specifically de-listed? If a car is outside the specs and requirmements of the ITCS in any way, should it even be allowed in?

    This car IMHO shines light on a philisophical issue more than anything. Not sure where I fall currently. I see it both ways. I see it the 'wheel' way AND I see it the 'rr shock' way.
    Andy Bettencourt
    New England Region 188967

  9. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Bettencourt View Post
    What I am saying Dan is that this is for sure an interesting case study. I see it in ways that don't mesh:

    1. I don't think you can legally take off the lip. If you are going to UD/BD, I feel the ITCS is clear that you have to do it as an assembly.

    2. If the resultant unit is outside the paramters of what can be done when you create one on your own - should the stock piece be legal?

    3. If no to #2, then should this car be specifically de-listed? If a car is outside the specs and requirmements of the ITCS in any way, should it even be allowed in?

    This car IMHO shines light on a philisophical issue more than anything. Not sure where I fall currently. I see it both ways. I see it the 'wheel' way AND I see it the 'rr shock' way.
    Andy, I saw this coming a mile away. To me this is like a guy beating me and winning a race and being a few lbs. under weight, windshield washer bottle, or a person using a short shifter. I'd never protest him because I know it's not the equipment that beat me, it was the driver. If he has nitrous, that might be another story. I'll run what ever the rules say I can run. If my bumper cover is deemed illegal, at least let me crash the nose so I have an excuse to replace it and get my money out of it. The way my luck was at the end of last year, it shouldn't be too long.

  10. #230

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Bettencourt View Post
    1. I don't think you can legally take off the lip. If you are going to UD/BD, I feel the ITCS is clear that you have to do it as an assembly.
    Wait a sec...you are saying the above because of the idea that you have to UD/BD an assembly. What defines where the assembly ends??

    I can understand someone saying part #1 in the picture is an assembly on its own. Part #23 is not the bumper cover, but a splitter added to the bumper cover. So do we call everything listed in the picture a bumper cover? Or do we only call part #1 the bumper cover?


    This is only one specific case - but in general, who defines where an "assembly" ends?
    #13 ITS S13 Nissan 240SX

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