Hey, hey, ho, ho. SFI has got to go..

[pgipson]

...F*ck. Is this enough to get me racing with NASA? Definitely getting closer to going somewhere else.
Christian

If anything, NASA is even more in bed with SFI/FIA requirements than SCCA is. 2 year rule on window nets, 5 year rule on FIA seats, 5 year rule on FIA cells (and approved cells are the only option apparently). Not to mention SFI 38.1. If racing was this dangerous 10 years ago, how did we make it to this point?

[Xian]

Hey Christian, on that link you provided to the IOPort system you bought it says this.....


New rules for the SCCA Club Racing in 2009 requires a SFI 17.1 Certified fire system in all newly logbooked cars in classes requiring fire systems. Upgrade to a SFI 17.1 fire system for just $10.00. Additionally, SCCA will allow the club racer to use the ESS refill kits without requiring any re-certification. This is a great advantage for the club racer over any other system since if they are fired, they must be sent back to the factory to be refilled and re-certified.

So is that true? And if so, doesn't that bypass the issue? I realize that that we are talking about re-certifing every two years, but come on....If I can refill myself?

Unless it says so in the GCR, I wouldn't count on it.

Well... here's some interesting info. I just got off the phone with Tom Turner (President ESS) and here's what he said (and I paraphrase): Since we are running in a class that doesn't require a plumbed fire system and we are simply substituing a plumbed system for the legal, non-SFI handheld system we should be just fine running a non-SFI plumbed fire system. FWIW, he's also currently a national scrutineer for SCCA. He also confirmed that the ESS systems do not require 2 year re-inspection and that they may be refilled by the user and maintain their SCCA club approval.

FWIW, he seemed like a super nice guy and very knowledgeable.

Christian

[Greg Amy]

There wasa rather lengthy thread on here about cels...

https://improvedtouring.com...ad.php?t=23937

[jjjanos]

Well... here's some interesting info. I just got off the phone with Tom Turner (President ESS) and here's what he said (and I paraphrase): Since we are running in a class that doesn't require a plumbed fire system and we are simply substituing a plumbed system for the legal, non-SFI handheld system we should be just fine running a non-SFI plumbed fire system. FWIW, he's also currently a national scrutineer for SCCA. He also confirmed that the ESS systems do not require 2 year re-inspection and that they may be refilled by the user and maintain their SCCA club approval.

FWIW, he seemed like a super nice guy and very knowledgeable.

Christian

According to the 2009 GCR, he is in error. You're car must either meet the fire system rules and/or the extinguisher rules. Cars registered 2009 or later have specific requirements for a system.

2009 GCR

9.3.22. FIRE SYSTEM
All cars shall be equipped with an On-Board Fire System except Showroom Stock, Touring, Spec Miata, and Improved Touring.
A. On-Board Fire System Requirements
Cars registered after 1/1/09 shall comply with the following onboard fire system requirements:
• Systems certified to SFI specification 17.1
• Those listed by the FIA on Technical List No. 16
The following information must be visible of the unit:
• Certification label
• Capacity
• Type of extinguishing agent
• Weight, or volume, of the extinguishing agent
The following is acceptable for cars registered before 1/1/09:
On-board fire systems shall use Halon 1301 or 1211, with a five pound minimum capacity (by weight). Alternatively, on-board fire systems may use AFFF or equivalent surfactant foam material, 2.25 liter minimum capacity (by volume). All AFFF fire system bottles shall incorporate a functional pressure gauge and shall be marked with the manufacturer’s recommended “filled weight.” CO2 cartridge propellant fire extinguishing
systems are permitted provided that the seal of the manufacturer specified CO2 cartridge is not punctured and the fire bottle is equal to the weight specified by the system manufacturer.

B. Hand-Held Fire Extinguisher Requirements
The following are acceptable for Showroom Stock, Touring and Improved Touring cars:

Please not the highlighted words. Acceptable does not mean required.

Sporting regs clearly say that everyone other than touring, spec miata, SS and IT must run a fire sytem. If you are required or allowed to run system and the car is registered 2009 or later, it must meet the new minimum standards. If you are required or allowed to run a system and the car is registered 2008 or earlier, the old standards apply.

In fact, there is no allowance in the GCR to mount either a fire system or handheld extinguisher in an IT car.

Showroom stock category rules: 9.1.7.D.2 - requires either a fire system or extinguisher compliant with 9.3.22
Touring category: 9.1.D.10.C - requires either a fire system or extinguisher compliant with 9.3.22
Spec Miata - 9.1.8.C.9.b - requires either a fire system or extinguisher compliant with 9.3.22
Improved Touring - 9.1.3.B. "... competition adjustments, other than as outlined in section 9.1.3.C, are not allowed. Other than those specifically allowed by these rules, no component or part normally found on a stock example of a given vehicle may be disabled, altered, or removed."
Improved Touring - 9.1.3.C - NADA about fire systems or fire extinguishers.
Improved Touring - 9.1.3.D -

AUTHORIZED MODIFICATIONS
The following modifications are authorized on all Improved Touring Category cars....

NADA about fire systems or fire extinguishers

Improved Touring 9.1.3.D.10:
Safety
a. The stock fuel tank may be replaced with a fuel cell. The fuel cell shall be located within twelve (12) inches of the original fuel tank location. Additional reinforcement may be added to support the fuel cell, but such reinforcement shall not attach to the roll cage. Floor pan may be modified for installation. See GCR Section 9.3.26., for requirements.
b. Spare wheels and tires may be removed.
c. Air bag systems shall be disarmed and may be removed.
d. If so equipped, the rolling door lock mechanism may be deactivated by unplugging the components.

You'll note the absence of any mention of fire systems or extinguishers.

Since IT cars are only allowed those modifications specifically required or allowed by the GCR and our category rules neither allow or require fire systems or extinguishers, we are all illegal.

[Greg Amy]

You'll note the absence of any mention of fire systems or extinguishers.

Eek. He's right.

We know what the rules are meant to say, but he's right in that there's nothing that says that any fire extinguishers are required.

What a terrible re-write...

[Xian]

:sigh:

[jjjanos]

Eek. He's right.

We know what the rules are meant to say, but he's right in that there's nothing that says that any fire extinguishers are required.

What a terrible re-write...

It's been that way for 3 editions. I brought to the attention of the CRB via email and received an email saying the fire system and extinguisher rules were adequete as written. I didn't even get the courtesy of a mention in Fasttrack!

If I didn't need the weight, the extinguisher would come out of the car for this year's annual tech.

[Gregg]

So take it out for the annual tech and make a point of telling the scrutineer why you pulled it out. I'd be interested to see if they sign off or not.

They don't weigh you for an annual.