Hey, hey, ho, ho. SFI has got to go..

[AjG]

Wait, what's with the fire systems? I don't have time right now to follow the news. Is my ESS AFFF Fire System still OK?

[Gibson]

So the way I understand it, on the ITA I am building now I can either run just the plain fire extinguisher, or the high dollar system you guys are talking about, but nothing in between?

I was already puzzled by the fuel cell rule, which allows either the stock tank or a top of the line cell, but none of the perfectly fine budget alternatives. What is the reasoning here? I am asking this in all seriousness, I am new to IT rules and am curious as to the why the all or nothing thought process.

[lateapex911]

Sigh...I dunno about this new firesystem fracas, but, last I checked, the fuel call rules were more open. I have a Jaz Rotomolded cel in my car.

There wasa rather lengthy thread on here about cels, Greg Amy played a role in it, maybe a search under his user name with Fuel" as a keyword would net hours of head scratching reading pleasure!

[Greg Amy]

There wasa rather lengthy thread on here about cels...

https://improvedtouring.com...ad.php?t=23937

[jjjanos]

Wait, what's with the fire systems? I don't have time right now to follow the news. Is my ESS AFFF Fire System still OK?

As of now, cars "registered" before 1January2009 do not need to meet the stupid SFI requirement.

So the way I understand it, on the ITA I am building now I can either run just the plain fire extinguisher, or the high dollar system you guys are talking about, but nothing in between?

Bingo. Seems that to meet the system, it must be shipped loaded. That incurs a charge to load it. It also incurs a HAZMAT shipping fee. If you never fire your bottle, then two years after certification, you have the privilege of shipping it back to the manufacturer for "inspection." That would require discharging the bottle, incurring a recharge fee in addition to the inspection fee.

Everybody who thinks that companies getting full bottles shipped to them for recertification will simply ship them back w/o discharge but with the recharge fee - raise your hand.

I am asking this in all seriousness, I am new to IT rules and am curious as to the why the all or nothing thought process.

Guess? Asshat BoD members buying into the agenda of some safety-fascist on the CRB who recommend it. Stupidity on our part for not fighting this tooth and nail.

[Duc]

Bingo. Seems that to meet the system, it must be shipped loaded. That incurs a charge to load it. It also incurs a HAZMAT shipping fee. If you never fire your bottle, then two years after certification, you have the privilege of shipping it back to the manufacturer for "inspection." That would require discharging the bottle, incurring a recharge fee in addition to the inspection fee.

Everybody who thinks that companies getting full bottles shipped to them for recertification will simply ship them back w/o discharge but with the recharge fee - raise your hand.

First the HAZMAT is NOT true. Big brown box trucks do not care what you ship (just do not tell them) and bring the box pre-packaged. Did that with my fire bottle to and from the shop. Second, if the company doing the work is not someone you trust, don't send it to them.


Also why could someone not just keep a hand held fire extinguisher and have a AFFF system as well. That is still compliant.

What everyone needs to get mad about is the lawyers that take on frivolous lawsuits that is driving this all.

[jjjanos]

First the HAZMAT is NOT true.

Then someone needs to tell the manufacturers. The two places I checked said it wa shipped with a HAZMAT fee when charged.

Also why could someone not just keep a hand held fire extinguisher and have a AFFF system as well. That is still compliant.

The principle?

Cost? It isn't compliant if you also want to enter in production. Between fuel, mileage, food, hotel, leave time, etc. there is a significant cost in towing 4-6 hours to a track. I've got a car that, other than a ridiculous requirement for a fire system and an SFI certified system at that, could be entered in a second race - often at a volume discount. The ability to run that extra set of sessions means I don't need to do the test day (saving 1 day of expenses). Hell, it's twice the track time for the same towing cost.

The danger from fire is significantly over estimated. I've seen and heard of more drivers dieing from heart attacks while racing then who have experienced a fire where they needed the suit, let alone a fire system.

Kee-rist, if they want to save our freaking lives, the requirement should be for a real-time EKG when driving.

[Greg Amy]

Big brown box trucks do not care what you ship (just do not tell them)...

Dude. That's potentially a Federal offense. If that thing ends up on a commercial airliner and they don't know, at best you're on your way to the pokey (witness: Value Jet 592).

If it's HAZMAT, you better declare it.

GA

[Duc]

We are talking about a fire bottle. They all have pressure relief valves. If it does go off it is going to make a mess and may put out a fire:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ValuJet_Flight_592

Not oxygen generators.

Catch up on Mythbusters' Extinguisher_explosion which was a good one.

Plus it is only a 10-20 dollar fee. The shop I went through did not send it that way (or ate the cost). Nor did the UPS I sent it through. I told them what it was and they did not even know of a hazmat fee (let alone what a fire bottle is).

Plus let me state I really do understand the added cost as I am just starting up. I am still borrowing safety equipment, and will as long as I have a good friend (Helmet, Suit, and HANS).

Also forget the EKG, maybe auto defibrillators like you can find at the airport. Though you would have to use it yourself due to the fact that some is afraid of being sued. Put the button right next you your starter, just hit the right one.

Get pissed off at the lawyers that take on stupid cases, not the governing body that is trying to keep the insurance company happy.

[Greg Amy]

We are talking about a fire bottle. They all have pressure relief valves. If it does go off it is going to make a mess and may put out a fire:

If it's listed as HAZMAT, it's a Federal offense to ship it without notifying the carrier.

Period.

[924Guy]

Get pissed off at the lawyers that take on stupid cases, not the governing body that is trying to keep the insurance company happy.

I'm not really getting the sense that this is the case (not that I'm any fan of laywers)...

Sadly, SCCA seems to just be getting scared of lawsuits, and not just about safety: there was recently a big stink about some special wheels in FF, which were custom-made at great expense, for an aero advantage. They were ruled (in protest during a race weekend) as being illegal. The car owner, who paid to have all these special rims made (not directly perhaps in conflict with the rule, to be sure), filed appeals etc right up to the top. As I heard word-of-mouth, it came down to him complaining that he'd invested a great deal of money into having the rims made, and if SCCA didn't find them legal for use, he'd sue SCCA.

I think it was the Jan Fastrack that had a wheel rule change for FF to allow basically any wheel you want, covers unrestricted.

Sad, but I heard it from a trustworthy source IMO.

[raffaelli]

Get pissed off at the lawyers that take on stupid cases, not the governing body that is trying to keep the insurance company happy.

That is just plain silly. Don't hate the player (lawyer), hate the game (laws which allow courts to become bogged down with nothing lawsuits). Lawyers just do there job - get the most bang for the buck for their clients.