2009: Kumho vs. Hankook vs. Hoosier vs. BFG... fight!

[vtluu]

Hi folks, old topic, new year. I'm pondering tire choices for my ITS Miata:
- Kumho V710 205/50-15
- Hankook Z214 C51 225/45-15
- Hoosier R6 225/45-15
- BFG R1 205/50-15

I can get a couple sets of Kumhos cheap from a team that has leftovers from the 25-Hour. They'll also work well for the occasional autocross if I so choose. At 18 lbs they're the lightest tire.

The Hoosiers are the stickiest and that ~9" tread width is unmatched, so I'd expect phenomenal grip, but as the shortest-lived tires costing about $200 more a set than any other, I'm willing to go without until my talent catches up.

AIM touts the Hankook as a miracle tire (sticky as Hoosiers, durable as Toyos). I've heard some people say the same about the BFG R1. I've seen very little actual data or even anecdotal evidence on either.

Hankook: 225-wide means more tread means more grip, but at 22 lbs apiece that's 4 lbs more unsprung weight per corner than the Kumhos, and the little bit of time I might drop with the extra grip I might sacrifice on the straights. My searches also found much grumbling about availability; is it still an issue?

BFG R1: the new kid on the block, and mostly an unknown quantity. Nothing to choose price-wise vs. the Kumhos or Hankooks.

[betamotorsports]

Choose the tire with the best contingency program (the one where you're most likely to get some money or tires for free) and run those.

[JeffYoung]

I only run the R6. Longevity is much improved over earlier versions. We get 10-12 good heat cycles out of them.

[vtluu]

Choose the tire with the best contingency program (the one where you're most likely to get some money or tires for free) and run those.

Thanks John. I'm only running regional SCCA events and as near as I can tell, given the current economic climate and all, the amount of contingency money that can be had is about... zero.

[JeffYoung]

You'd be surprised. We have a very good Hoosier contingency down here via Appalachian Tire. Not pushing Hoosiers on a noob, if I were you I'd go Toyos, but there are contingencies out there.

[JohnRW]

Basic rule of racing: The bestest fastest tire on earth is a free tire.

[vtluu]

Basic rule of racing: The bestest fastest tire on earth is a free tire.

Given the level of competition around here I'm not optimistic about my odds of winning any such things.

I've got 2 sets of Toyo RA1s but I'm looking to upgrade. I've got a set of Hankook C50s with 1.5 practice/test days on them so I guess those are better than the RA1s and "free".

I just ordered a new set of Kumho W710s for the 1-2 rain races we might have here in this region... I didn't switch from SM to IT to keep all my money in my wallet you know!

[ebb]

Kumho still has a contingency plan this year, but it is not as good as last year.

[lateapex911]

Tire truths:

Hoosiers: The defacto standard...fast, and now live a bit longer.

Hankooks: The challenger. (I set records at every track except one I ran at this year on kooks,), their life isn't well known, but the money is (was) good.

Toyos. slower, but last forever. The money tire if you can't win.

In the rain:

Dirt Stockers are the gold standard.
Close second, and better in the not torrential stuff because they won't chunk as soon: The new Hoosier molded radial rain.

All others a distant second


The higher unsprung weight of the Hoosiers is irrelevant compared to the grip in the final lap time analysis.

[mc-integra111]

Tire truths:

Hoosiers: The defacto standard...fast, and now live a bit longer.

Hankooks: The challenger. (I set records at every track except one I ran at this year on kooks,), their life isn't well known, but the money is (was) good.

Toyos. slower, but last forever. The money tire if you can't win.

In the rain:

Dirt Stockers are the gold standard.
Close second, and better in the not torrential stuff because they won't chunk as soon: The new Hoosier molded radial rain.

All others a distant second

The higher unsprung weight of the Hoosiers is irrelevant compared to the grip in the final lap time analysis.

It sounds like you have a lot of experience. I have never run Hankooks, but I agree with your analysis relative to the Hoosiers (dry and wet) and the Toyo's. I was wondering if you (or anyone) have any experience on how the Kumho V710 would fit in with the Hoosier/Hankook/Toyo? I was also wondering if anyone had any experience with the new Kumho wet that looks to be competing with the Hoosier wet radial?

[jumbojimbo]

Kumho still has a contingency plan this year, but it is not as good as last year.

Can you point me toward this? I don't see any non-national contingencies on the scca site (eye roll) http://www.scca.com/contingencies.aspx?hub=1&cid=9 But I also don't see anything on the Kumho site.

[vtluu]

Jim, don't make me post the obligatory LetMeGoogleThatForYou link:

http://kumhomotorsports.wordpress.com/contingency/

My theory: Kumho is cutting down on contingency costs by making the contingency program info really hard to find.

[hondaracer48]

Ron Cortez is the best tire guy on earth!!! I'd trust him on his datas on the Hankooks. I would probably go with the Hankooks based on what your requirements are (price/grip/durability).

One thing to consider though......considering how much money you've invested or will invest into the car, would you want to have that investment limited by your tire choice? It always helps me to put my mind frame on race weekends where I can recall instances where I wish I had spent a little more to get that little edge.

Ed Chang
SFR ITS GSRs

[mustanghammer]

Anybody have experience with the Nitto NT01? They also offer a 225/45/15 and priced right. Plus you can get them from www.discounttire.com for free shipping. These tires seem to be popular in NASA and with the open track crowd. I seem to remember them doing well in a Grassroots Motorsports comparo.

The fact that Kumho doesn't offer a 225/45x15 to me would be a turn off if I needed and can use that tire size. I am not sure that it would be fair to compare the Kumho 205/50 to a 225 from the other manufacturers. That said, I would NEVER turn down really cheap or Free tires if it means I can get track time.

BTW I drive on Kumhos and like them. I can afford them and they drive predictably. I have beaten Hoosiers with them - twice last year at HPT.

[vtluu]

Thanks Ed & others.

My car is nowhere near "built to the hilt" yet so I'm not overly concerned about being tire-limited, but it'd be nice to start out with tires I can grow into for the next couple of years.

Scott, I ran the Nitto NT-01s on my race-prepped Evo 8. Nice sticky durable tires, overall about the same level of grip as the Kumho Victoracers but a bit less "peaky" and more consistent performance throughout their life. A modest step up from the RA1s, I think. Rumor was that they have the same compound as the RA1 successor, i.e. what's called the R888 today. I ran a couple sets of Victoracers on my Evo and they had a nasty way of wearing very unevenly; shaving might have helped but then why not go for the V710s.

In brief, NT-01s are nice but not in the same league as the semi-slick DOTs.

[IPRESS]

Tam, Go with the Hoosier R6 SM 205 50 15. It is cheaper by a bunch and works great. Fast & Lasts!

[kevin22]

If you are learning as a driver I would reccomend just choosing a a consistant and inexpensive tire such as the TOYO. Stay with the same tire and develope your driving skill. Eventually, when you are driving to the limits of what the tire and car can handle, try some other makes of tire and feel for yourself the difference.

[vtluu]

Kevin, thanks but that's missing the point. If I wanted cheap/consistent tires/car I would have stayed in Spec Piñata.

Of course I'm still learning as a driver. I'm always learning. Has anybody here stoppped learning? I've "learned" past the point where stickier tires are beneficial for me, really!

Anyway after I factor in the cost of shaving, they're not actually cheaper than the Kumhos or BFGs are for me as I can get the latter two at discounted prices.

[kevin22]

Unless you are running at the very front, who cares if one tires is a couple tenths faster then another. If you are a full second behind the leader is the extra $200 a set worth it. i think economics and consistancy are more important, unless you are at the front.

[vtluu]

If you are a full second behind the leader is the extra $200 a set worth it.

If it makes me a second faster, then yes.

If only it was that clear-cut a decision. Thanks everybody for all the helpful replies!