drivers working races

[NutDriverRighty]

There aren't many times that I agree with JJJanos, but I must say that he's basically hit the nail on the head. I spend more than $100 per weekend that I volunteer to work corners. Sometimes, I spend $300+. My time is just as valuable as anyone else's there. I have other things that I need to do as well. My wife isn't always happy for me to be gone all weekend (although, sometimes I'm sure she is!!). I do not come and spend my time, effort and money to see ____ racing against _____ in ____ run group. Yes, the racing can be entertaining at times. Working corners is much like being an airline pilot with HOURS of boredom punctuated by seconds of terror. Like Mr. Janos, the last thing that I want on my corner is someone who is inattentive, uninterested, or prone to distraction. I don't think that drivers should work corners on weekends that they race unless they have at least a half a day to give. While I am a corner worker, I am also a driver. I love to race (albeit slowly) and I've been fortunate enough to do it for the last five years. I've been working corners for six.

Before I get off of my soapbox, I'd like to say that the SCCA is a club. Just because you've paid an entry fee doesn't obligate me to drive to the race and work corners. I have to pay money to do that, too (although the Atlanta Region does pay $80 per weekend for Regional and Divisional license holders in F&C and $120 for the weekend for National license holders). Sitting in 100*+ heat in July at Road Atlanta is NOT where I want to be. Believe me, the $80-$120 we get as "payment" is a small consolation and rarely covers the expense of going to a race. However, as a club member who wants to see the club succeed and see the races happen, I am there. I couldn't care much less about "how entertaining" the race is. It's my job to watch, report, document, observe, communicate, flag, and respond. Your pass in turn one may have been the greatest move ever seen in the history of automobiles, but I'm in turn 5 and I didn't see it. Don't think that (all) corner workers come for the thrill of the race. We can't hear the track announcements due to having headphones on to talk to race control and we're too busy watching for parts falling off of the LBC or keeping an eye on the nitwit who has driven off in turn 2 for the fourth time this session.

I would like to personally thank Butch Kummer for working corners. I have had the chance to work with him and he's darned good. If anyone out there is willing and interested in working corners, we'd be glad to have you. If you haven't done it for 30 years, not much has changed. If you've never done it, you might learn a thing or two, make new friends, and maybe have a good time!

Let the flaming begin!!

Scott Franklin
F&C
ITA/7
SPU

[lateapex911]

One other thought. While this discussion has hit the flagging aspect often, there are lots of other ways to chip in.

And, when you screw up, it's nice to have a "friend" in the corps who knows and appreciates that you've volunteered on occasion and helps cover your ass. That can take many forms.

[Butch Kummer]

Since Scott has outted me, yes I HAVE worked corners (and just about every other job at the race track) but never when I'm driving that weekend. But then I live an hour from Road Atlanta, I have no life, my son has kids of his own, and my wife is strangely disappointed those weekends when I'm not headed to the race track.

Not only does working corners provide an opportunity to give back to the club, but it also makes me a better driver! I've written articles on this, but as a driver you get to see maybe three other cars (the ones immediately around you) take a particular corner 20-30 times over a weekend. As a corner worker you can watch the entire field take a corner (both good and bad) for two days!

One example: I was working Turn 11 (the Bridge) at Road Atlanta for the Petit one year and noticed that EFR and Butch Leitzinger were coming under the Bridge on the driver's far right (almost nailing the abutment) while most of us Clubbies (myself included) were taking a much wider line. Knowing that those guys are good, I tried their line the next time I drove and discovered the bump under the Bridge is MUCH less severe on the right than it is farther left. Not a big difference on the clock, but it DOES a big difference in keeping a relatively high horsepower car under you right there.

Another advantage is the workers pay more attention to folks they know. At Saturday night's party I'll ask "How'd I look out there today?" and many times I'll get comments on how my line compared to my fellow drivers. If I was just another helmet they might not pay attention, but them being able to put a face with a car number gives me an advantage.

YMMV...

[ner88]

So, in general, racers would rather pay an additional $225. per event for workers?
Please let me know beacuse I'll stop worrying about where I'm going to find voluteers and start hiring workers.
Hmmmm, what's the going rate for a flagger, stewart, tech inspector, pace car driver or someone to sit in Timing and scoring all weekend?
I'm not sure $225. would cover it!

Jerry Rigoli NER CRB chairman

[JLawton]

Dick,

I'll volunteer to drive the pace car!!

[Greg Amy]

I'll volunteer to drive the pace car!!

Ten bucks says he and DiMinno "get together" anyway...

[dominojd]

Ten bucks says he and DiMinno "get together" anyway...

And he wouldn't even be driving the pace in our race group?

[dickita15]

Dick,

I'll volunteer to drive the pace car!!

I think I can make that happen.

[Knestis]

I did pretty much every specialty at least once before I started driving, between '79 and '86 and, while I enjoyed most of them more than not being at the race track (old-school T&S sucked), I enjoy driving more than any of them. I don't even spectate at races much, unless it's a really cool event, it's really close, and it's not a big time/$$ production (e.g., GA at VIR when I lived in Greensboro and could go up just for the day).

I had a HUGE advantage when I started driving, since I knew how the systems work, knew the people, etc. But I'll tell you - I saw an even GREATER lack of understanding when I started my "second" racing career and did my school to get re-licensed in 2004. I talked to two other students who'd never even been at the track on a race weekend. They knew what HPDE-type events looked like, but had no idea about the SCCA, specialties, processes, etc.

(The caliber of DRIVING was much better this time around however, with the huge growth in track day opportunities. When I did my first school, most of the students knew the Club but had NEVER driving on-track.)

THAT SAID, I think it would be a great idea for Novice license programs to require that new drivers spend a couple of days out on the corners. It gives one an entirely different perspective on the relationship between flagger and driver, to be the piece of meat out there among the high-speed metal boxes.

K

[JLawton]

I think I can make that happen.

Don't tease me Dick!!!

[gran racing]

I'll preface this by saying I sincerely appreciate what volunteers do for our club and am very appreciative.

So, in general, racers would rather pay an additional $225. per event for workers?

You might not like the answers but for a significant number of people they'd turn to other clubs or racing businesses. Jerry, since you put a NER spin on it I can pretty much guarantee NASA North East would see an influx of new racers.

What we as drivers are forgetting, that many times flaggers do not have the means, ability or desire to literally race, but they do enjoy being part of the "club" and enjoy the social side of the event.

Excellent point. I don't care what organization you're talking about - American Cancer Society, American Red Cross, SCCA... - the reality is people volunteer because it benefits them in some way. That benefit could be because they enjoy the position, it makes them feel good to help others, they've been impacted by the cause in some manner, and so on. That's not a bad thing but is a reality.

Jerry - What if we put a mandatory $50 increase in the entry fee for the workers fund, that ultimately can help to pay for at least gas for the flaggers?

There are price points where people will turn to other options but in general people would rather pay a few extra bucks (probably not $50). I know when I was doing HPDEs there were two clubs I tried. One was a bit cheaper but it was necessary to work the corners for a session or two. The other one was a bit more expensive but drivers never had to work the corners. I did the less expensive option once and became a regular of the other organization.

[Jeremy Billiel]

So the Atlanta division pays for their licensed F&C come to the track. What about the other volunteer positions?

What we as drivers are forgetting, that many times flaggers do not have the means, ability or desire to literally race, but they do enjoy being part of the "club" and enjoy the social side of the event.

Jerry - What if we put a mandatory $50 increase in the entry fee for the workers fund, that ultimately can help to pay for at least gas for the flaggers?

In New England we already do "pay" workers who do a good job by giving them TIPS, which is good for merchandise, gas cards, hotel room stays, etc... We can't forget that either.

[Butch Kummer]

So the Atlanta division pays for their licensed F&C come to the track. What about the other volunteer positions?

I had to actually do some work this morning but didn't want this to get lost in the ensuing discussion(s):

All volunteer specialties are eligible for our Worker Expense Reimbursement Program. Contracted positions (wrecker and ambulance people, track security, etc.) are not eligible. Since implementing the program we've had MUCH better success staffing events, but now the challenge is keeping our events profitable without raising entry fees to unreasonable levels.

It's always about trying to maintain a balance...

[gran racing]

myself and others were met with mucho resistance from the "old world" crowd that wouldn't give up dates and couldn't see beyond their own noses.

I know Mike Dickerson who used to work at the national office made this suggestion several times and received the same general reaction that Travis mentioned. Politics and SCCA regions often competiting with each other doesn't help much either.

[tnord]

I know Mike Dickerson who used to work at the national office made this suggestion several times and received the same general reaction that Travis mentioned. Politics and SCCA regions often competiting with each other doesn't help much either.

I know Mike pretty well, and he's a guy that's not part of the problem.

Regions, in my experience, are absolutely terrible at working together to acheive a common goal. ie - CenDiv/GLDiv split, how has that worked out for you guys?

i don't mean to be insulting, but part of the problem is the qualifications of the people you have volunteering for these administrative/leadership roles. i don't mean to group EVERYONE together in this, as it seems Butch has done a good job, and we have a couple in our area (Scott Peterson, Bill Johnson, Jim Wheeler) who are high caliber as well, but.....

many of the people that really run the regions seem to have no actual real world experience that would give them the perspective and knowledge needed to make the directional and strategic type decisions that have far reaching implications beyond their respective regions. i've seen quality people TRY to get their nose in there and make a difference, but they're met with such resistance by the old guard that it becomes a undertaking that's just not worth the individual's time.....after all, this is supposed to be their fun/relaxing hobby......so they walk.

go ahead, flame away.

[Jeremy Billiel]

I heard a quote this weekend at the NER Annual Meeting that stuck with me. It was over some beers, while eating dinner and it was "damn, we are dealing with a 700k a year revenue generating business. Do you know how hard it is to make a 700k a year business?"

[gran racing]

I know Mike pretty well, and he's a guy that's not part of the problem.

I absolutely agree. He suggested a valid solution a while back of when the demand wasn't there.

[ner88]

Dave
Where do you think NASA would get their volunteers?

The majority of volunteers are not racecar driver want a bees.
There are a limited number of workers, most don't do it for the gifts or money, they have a passion for the sport just like you and me.
I find in funny that many use the excuse that they are too busy, sorry bad excuse.
Most weekends I have three cars on the track and I still found time to be a racechair, pacecar driver, gas pump jockey and school instructor, just to name a few.
At the enduro at NHMS I drove the first half of the race, got out and manned the pacecar for the rest of the race.
I do this because I want to race and if someone dosen't step up there will be no racing.
Have you ever notice how many of the same workers you see at NHMS, LRP, NJMP or the Glen? When will they reach burnout?
We need new blood, now!
NER has lost our chief of timing and scoring, after three years of looking for a replacement, we have no one! Where do we find someone? Take it from someone who knows, they are not on Craigs list!
I know, it's not your problem, well, guess what, it is.

Jerry

[Andy Bettencourt]

Jerry,

As someone who has volunteered on many levels, I want to ask that you take a step back. In your short tenure in your position you have taken on a real 'us against them' attitude that can foster inside the local committees when two sides of an issue aren't well represented.

How about we change the direction and really try and come up some solutions. Lets lay out YOUR specific needs and see if we can help you solve them.

Telling people that they can't be too busy isn't accurate nor is it productive. People give their reasons, let's address them and come up with solutions instead of shouting them down.

[mustanghammer]

When I am at the track, I want to be there as a racer. It is my mini-vacatiion from life and that is what I want and need. I dreamed about doing this for a long time before I could afford to actually do it. I would hope that those involved in putting on the race have the same desire that I do and that they are enjoying themselves too.

That said I haven't forgotten that this is a volunteer organization so I serve on my local BOD. So, while I am not standing on a corner station in 100+ degree weather I am doing my part to see that my club make good financial decisions and promotes Solo and Club Racing programs that work for the members we serve.

For me the SCCA represents an opportunity to be involved in something that is bigger than yourself. There are many ways to serve and make it better. It could be on a corner station or in an administrative function. Both are important.

Great conversation!