Enduros and car rental...

[erlrich]

Ok, the thread about renting your car reminded me of a question I had about enduros: do most of you car owners who participate in enduros treat your co-drivers as renters? As in, do you typically charge a fee - that takes into account event costs like entry fees, gas, tires, etc., plus a "rental" fee - for them to participate in the event? I have a pretty good idea how Kirk does it with Pablo, but I'm wondering if that's the norm?

[MMiskoe]

No, we expect that we share everything equally, money, effort, fun, credit.

Its a sport that requires everyone to work together and demands more than one person. We want to go racing this way, making money is not the goal.

I'd have a tough time expecting a driver to help lug gear around if I were making a profit off them (because you can damn well better beleive I wouldn't lift a finger if it were the other way around).

Matt

[Knestis]

What we do, in terms of business arrangements, isn't exclusive of what Matt describes. I'll let any of our past "renters" chime in here if they want but I don't think they feel like sources of profit. I'll share our cost estimating practices with anyone who cares and there's no line item for "Kirk's pockets."

We DO expect that their contributions support amortization of the construction of the car and long-term service.

K

[Greg Amy]

...there's no line item for "Kirk's pockets."

And, in fact, said owner has taken significant financial hits when post-agreement/contract costs rose unexpectedly (read: this summer when travel/enduro gasoline weren't exactly cheap, but he'd already made the driving deals with us).

GA

[erlrich]

We DO expect that their contributions support amortization of the construction of the car and long-term service.

K

That's what I was referring to; guess I could have spelled it out a little more clearly. I don't doubt for a minute that the income from the "renters" falls well short of covering the cost of building, racing, and maintaining the car for the entire season, but I know to a certain extent those costs are factored into the price of a ride in Pablo.

The reason I even brought this up was that I had been thinking about the possibility of doing some enduros in the future (in my car), and my ideas were more along the lines of what Matt was saying; i.e. that a group of 3-4 friends would get together and split the costs of running a particular event. Aside from a very clear understanding of who would be responsible for damage from accidents/gross stupidity I wouldn't have expected the other drivers to cover costs beyond the event they were participating in. I just wasn't sure if that was a really stupid way to look at it, or if there were some out there who did it that way.

[Knestis]

>> I wouldn't have expected the other drivers to cover costs beyond the event they were participating in.

That's your choice, certainly but if I could find someone interested in enduros who was willing to do that for me on a regular basis, I'd park ol' Pablo and run with them instead.

I budget for regular service and amortization of the car (3 year property) at $400 per on-track hour. That's $3600 out of my pocket ($1200 for each codriver), assuming I have three other pilots sharing with me in a 12 hour race.

Ouch.

And that's not even a reflection of my current situation, where I have to contract with CMS to do more of the basic service I used to do, when I was closer to Cameron's shop.

K

[trhoppe]

I couldn't imagine taking amortization and depreciation of the car into account when having someone codrive with you. The car is getting beat on, and every single part of that car is incurring wear and tear, and the owner takes all that hit unless he is reimbursed for that as part of the rental fees.

Like Kirk said, if you find someone who will allow me to just split THAT event cost with him to codrive their race car, sign me right up. I did that as part of the purchase price of my car for the previous owner, but that was because he was already discounting the purchase price to account for that fact.

-Tom

[jjjanos]

The reason I even brought this up was that I had been thinking about the possibility of doing some enduros in the future (in my car), and my ideas were more along the lines of what Matt was saying; i.e. that a group of 3-4 friends would get together and split the costs of running a particular event. Aside from a very clear understanding of who would be responsible for damage from accidents/gross stupidity I wouldn't have expected the other drivers to cover costs beyond the event they were participating in. I just wasn't sure if that was a really stupid way to look at it, or if there were some out there who did it that way.

When we ran the Smurf in the enduros, the arrangement was as follows:

Team split the cost of preparing the car for the full distance, all consumables, the rehab after the event including damage. If it was worn and needed replacement, it was a team cost. If it broke during the event, it was a team cost. If it needed replacement after the event, it was a team cost. If an ITA driver who shall remain nameless was in the car when the brand new engine overheated, it was a team cost.
If a nameless prod driver turned it turtle in turn 10, that was a team cost.

The opportunity cost of labor for prepping the car was included.

The buyout price was established in advance and I got to keep the car.

It only works if the entire team trusts each other, likes each other and would like to keep it that way afterwards.

The way I figured it, I ended up with a car that was gone over with a fine comb twice and I got handling feedback from 4 other drivers. The depreciation was something I just ate because I wanted to run an endurance event and wanted to do it in a car I knew.

[callard]

The Fifty Plus team divides cost of race and restoration by number of drivers - No liability. We're friends having fun.
Chuck

[Knestis]

The Fifty Plus team divides cost of race and restoration by number of drivers - No liability. We're friends having fun.
Chuck

Interesting approach, looking at costs to service the car after the event. I confess that never occured to me because we service the car BEFORE the event. I suppose that if a car ONLY ran enduros, it would effectively be the same thing but since I run sprint races between the long ones, I feel like I have to provide renters with a fresh piece.

K