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Thread: Proposed Change to IT Purpose and Intent

  1. #1
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    Default Proposed Change to IT Purpose and Intent

    As some of you in the Central Florida Region already know, I am fairly vocal about the IT rules, the CRB and the advisory committee that provides inputs to the CRB. I have been competing in Improved Touring for over 20 years. During that time, IT has matured and I do believe that the Purpose and Intent, as presently documented, are neither accurate nor reflective of that maturation. Therefore I propose to submit a change to the “original” Purpose and Intent of Improved Touring that will better reflect the reality of the current cars being added, the normal automotive product and technological evolution, and to restate the original “low cost” philosophy of the category to a more realistic “Cost Containment” focus that will better serve both the current and future competitors of Improved Touring.



    Over the last year or so, I believe that the original philosophy and the Purpose and Intent of the category “Improved Touring” as currently documented, has been compromised. While I understand and usually concur with many of the decisions of the CRB, I find that the current trend of specification change decisions are not in accordance with the currently documented Purpose and Intent of the Improved Touring category. Therefore, I propose that a “New Purpose and Intent and subsequent Notes ” needs to be established to:
    1. Better reflect the current thinking of the CRB and it’s advisors and
    2. To better accommodate the configurations of cars be added and
    3. To put in place, a focus on “Cost Containment”.

    Recommended New Statement of Purpose:


    Purpose: “Improved Touring classes are intended to provide the membership with the opportunity to compete in cars offered for purchase in North America with limited modifications, suitable for racing competition. They will be prepared to the manufacturer’s specifications except for modifications permitted by these rules”.
    Recommended New Statement of Intent:

    Intent: “It is the intent of these rules to restrict modifications to those useful and necessary to construct a safe racecar. It is also the intent of these rules to keep the costs of preparing, maintaining and competing a car in the Improved Touring category to a minimum. The class is intended to allow a variety of popular cars to be eligible; however, those (cars) determined by the Club to be outside of these parameters shall not be classified. Entrants shall not be guaranteed the competitiveness of any car, and competition adjustments, other than as outlined in section 9.1.3.C, will not allowed. Other than those specifically allowed by these rules, no component or part normally found on a stock example of a given vehicle may be disabled, altered, substituted or removed for the purpose of obtaining any competitive advantage”.

    Rationale:

    I believe that these revised changes would provide both the CRB and its advisory committee the latitude to add cars like those now included within the category of ITR and other future groupings. Without the revised wording, I also believe that the current trend in newer car inclusion is not compliant within the scope of the currently documented Purpose and Intent. I also strongly beleive that a new focus needs to be established on "containing the cost" of building, racing, and maintaining a car in the Improved Touring Category in an attempt to keep the costs of racing an IT car to an acceptable level. The current combined “Purpose / Intent” of improved touring is to allow a variety of popular, inexpensive cars to be eligible, prepared and race in the category. “ However, those (cars) determined by the Club to be outside of these parameters will not be classified”. I do not believe that the current actions and subsequent rule changes of the CRB or its advisory committee, comply with the existing “P&T” statements. I further do not believe that the current statement of “Purpose and Intent” is realistic based on the vehicles that are currently included within the 2009 version of the Improved Touring Category Specifications (ITCS). I also believe that a “Revised” purpose and intent of IT should focus on keeping the “costs low“ with regard to building, maintaining and racing of an IT car by restricting and limiting modifications.

    While I admit that the terms “low cost and inexpensive” are rather nebulous and undefined. Common sense does not permit the majority of current IT competitors to believe that the most recent crop of cars being added is either “low cost or inexpensive”. I believe that with the creation of ITR along with the newer cars that have been added, and future models / engines that are being considered, only validates my claim that neither term is applicable.

    Whether it is a Lexus or a Porsche, newer BMW’s, or an Acura RSX, I don’t believe that any of these cars, and the years that are eligible, can be considered either “low cost or inexpensive. Also the cars that are being constructed now, are purpose built racing cars. They maybe used streetcars, but they are being constructed with all of the precision and safety of a car that would normally built for a professional series, and the current rule wording adds unnecessary costs to be construction and maintainence of said vehicles.

    In addition, I also believe that a “New Philosophy” for IT needs to be adapted to govern the rule making process to focus on “cost containment” by providing rules that are supportive of the construction and the maintenance of a “cost effective” racecar. And if adapted, I further believe that new rules should be freely made that facilitate cost effectiveness and vehicle maintainability while not jeopardizing safety or disregarding the original philosophy and concept of the IT category.

    I have not submitted my proposal to the CRB. I have submitted my proposal to the members and readers of CFR's publication "The Checker". I submit my proposal to the readers of this website for constructive discussion.
    Thank you in advance for your consideration, and comments,
    Sincerely, David Ellis-Brown



  2. #2
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    Um. So IT is broken because we let people choose between cars that you think are low cost and cars that you do not think are low cost?

    I guess I would love to see some evidence of how this is damaging to IT. Do you have any data to support this?
    Chris Schaafsma
    Golf 2 HProd

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  3. #3
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    holy fuckballs.

    It is also the intent of these rules to keep the costs of preparing, maintaining and competing a car in the Improved Touring category to a minimum.
    no way. is it that hard to predict the landslide of requests to allow X stock part be replaced by X aftermarket part in the name of lower cost of maintenance? under the new statements, they'd probably be justified. i don't like this one bit.
    Last edited by tnord; 01-15-2009 at 02:36 PM.
    Travis Nordwald
    1996 ITA Miata
    KC Region

  4. #4
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    How is limiting the types of cars classed going to restrict spending? If someone wants to build a top-notch 80's econo-box there isn't anything stop them. Heck, the cost to build an RSX isn't much more than the cost to build a CRX.

    Change requests like this absolutely smack of some level of self-interest... what car/class do you race? What's the prep level?

    Christian
    Christian in FL | Something white with Honda on the valve cover...
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  5. #5
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    No.

    This is the first step to production-like irrelevancy.
    AKA...keep out the newer cars so that my 30+ year-old car remains competitive.
    Also the cars that are being constructed now, are purpose built racing cars. They maybe used streetcars, but they are being constructed with all of the precision and safety of a car that would normally built for a professional series,...
    As well they should be. That's the standard towards which we all should aspire.

    ...
    and the current rule wording adds unnecessary costs to be construction and maintainence of said vehicles.
    Please provide specific examples.

  6. #6
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    I feel like I'm not really getting the point of some of what you're describing David. What specifically are you trying to prevent or allow with the change?

    The one thing I can say confidently, though (and it's been suggested already): There's NO way that we can write anything about costs into the rules and have it make sense, because there's NO way that rules can influence what any given racer might spend. That's as close to a "natural law of racing" as they come, to my way of thinking.

    But again, maybe I'm confused. How about some examples of what the proposed language fixes...?

    K

    EDIT - I've read it again. Is it really about keeping out new cars that cost more (e.g., an ITC New Beetle that requires a $3000 donor)...?

  7. #7
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    Huh. And here I was, thinking of proposing a rule to ditch the 4-years-plus-1 rule...

  8. #8
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    umm... NO.
    Jeremy Billiel

  9. #9
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    LOL.

    Lots of problems with the idea, if I even understand it correctly.

    It appears that he wants the CRB (ITAC) to put a limit on cars that are classed, and he hints at rule changes as well, to limit expenditure.

    I don't see an issue. I watched a top notch race last summer at the IT Fest between a 25 yr old car and a 8 yr old car. The new car won, by 2 seconds. I also watched a 22 yr old car clean up over much newer cars. As a matter of fact, "new" and (I assume) expensive cars haven't really cleaned up in any class.

    That's a sign that the classification process is working. Old and new are on the same footing.

    Now, where is the problem? Obviously, the category provides many low cost and competitive options. There is no real NEED to buy the latest and greatest if you want to be the fastest.

    The category provides options of newer models as well...but hey, if you don't want to spend the money, DON'T! It appears that the writer is confusing the opportunity to spend lots of money with the need to...but that need just doesn't exist.

    I find the proposal vague, lacking reasoning, and without concrete examples.
    Last edited by lateapex911; 01-15-2009 at 07:02 PM.
    Jake Gulick


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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by lateapex911 View Post
    It appears that the writer is confusing the opportunity to spend lots of money with the need to...but that need just doesn't exist.
    Very well said!
    Josh Sirota
    ITR '99 BMW Z3 Coupe

  11. #11
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    David,

    Was that your prior request in the April 2008 Fastrack for alternate Gear Ratios for the Jetta and an open allowance for Fuel Injectors? If so, was it also an idea to help keep build and running costs low?

    Christian
    Christian in FL | Something white with Honda on the valve cover...
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    LTB Motorsports- The Cheapest Place for Momo
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  12. #12
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    Default

    Another needlesss answere to a needless question nobody asked?
    Paul Sherman
    Wichita Region
    '96 Neon #19 ITA (finally )
    Formerly known as P Sherm
    Joined 30 Sep 02
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  13. #13
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    David, I appreciate the thought you put into that. It's clear you have considered this for some time.

    However, it's just not entirely clear to me what it is you are asking for. As Kirk stated, regardless of the initial price of a chassis, there is no real way to control costs on a race car build. Spec Miata should provide you with a prime example of how with even very limited prep rules, costs cannot be contained.

    What criteria would you propose for determining that a car is too expensive to be classified?

    Do you have any support amongst IT racers for this proposal? It frankly came out of the blue, which is fine, but as a practical matter I don't see how the ITAC can consider a change to the fundamental statemet of purpose for IT based on a single request.

    Let us know your further thoughts on this.
    NC Region
    1980 ITS Triumph TR8

  14. #14
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    are you saying that ITR should not exist? i am not sure i understand the comment regarding not classifying cars

    ...determined by the Club to be outside of these parameters shall not be classified


    can you give specific examples of cars that should not be classified within each class? or is it that ITR should not exist?

    i am also having a hard time understanding the average post rate of less than one per year from someone that is "vocal" (join date of 2005 and this is the 3rd post?)

    looking forward to your comments & clarifications.
    1985 CRX Si competed in Solo II: AS, CS, DS, GS
    1986 CRX Si competed in: SCCA Solo II CSP, SCCA ITA, SCCA ITB, NASA H5
    1988 CRX Si competed in ITA & STL

  15. #15
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    look, i race ITC because thats what i fell into and what i can afford... i have no problem with people building what they like and what they can afford... if that's ITD or ITR, as long as they can drive and i can drive it's fine with me.

    in fact, i even plan on building one of those ITR RSX's one day. i'm aware of the cost, and believe me.. that car will have a lot more miles on it by the time it ses the track, than it does now.

    the rules are fine as is.

    hoop
    hoop
    Greensboro, NC
    STL Newbie

  16. #16
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    ITR isn't expensive... Ben just picked up a 968 for $500! Let in the V8's - that'll bring the average ITR build price down.

    Sure IT was cheap (for racing anyway) 15 or 20 years ago, but that's just because very few were trying anywhere near as hard as they are today. The same is true for spec miata, just on a shorter timescale.

    The only way to truly limit costs is with a claimer rule, and I can't image that would be very poplular.

  17. #17
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    I'm sure most of you have heard how you make a small fortune in racing right?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by GKR_17 View Post
    I'm sure most of you have heard how you make a small fortune in racing right?
    Yup. Be the product of the right sperm - Piquet, Rosberg, etc.

    K

  19. #19
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    My thoughts, in no particular order.

    1) Inflation stinks.
    2) You can not legislate the cost of racing.
    3) When grassroots and inexpensive classes become popular, the amount of money people are willing to spend to get to the pointy end goes up with it. (see also Spec Miata, and the emerging NASA Spec E30 series)
    4) IT currently has several classes that allow cars to be built on various budgets and be competitive.
    5) Why would we want to exclude someone from racing IT because they want to be spendy about it?

  20. #20
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    there is a very nice ITC / ITB CRX for sale on site. this car cost ~ $25,000 for its original build.

    https://improvedtouring.com...ad.php?t=25178

    i have no idea where the "Best" built IT car could end up, cost wise. but whether or not we do is up to us. again, there is no guarantee that we can be competitive if we don't spend $$ on new tires every year/race, etc.

    but for a lot of us, that is just fine. i have fun doing my best on the track with what i have decided is my limit of spending.
    1985 CRX Si competed in Solo II: AS, CS, DS, GS
    1986 CRX Si competed in: SCCA Solo II CSP, SCCA ITA, SCCA ITB, NASA H5
    1988 CRX Si competed in ITA & STL

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