Life without the VIN rule

[Xian]

The additions to ITB yes, but the 'shrinkage' of ITC? Did we just kill it?

I think it's only helping along what was coming inevitably anyway...

[spnkzss]

Out of curiosity, was ITD ever big and if so was a big deal mad eout of it pretty much dying?

[tom91ita]

.... How competitive is the 1st gen CRX in ITB?

it's fair. you could be in the trophies. you need to qualify well since we still get walked some at the starts and on the straights.

not sure what great lakes tracks you have been to but mine runs 1:49's at Mid-Ohio with the keyhole chicane & 1:49's at Road Atlanta.

come to the IT spectacular at Mid-Ohio for the best competition "locally"

[Gary L]

Out of curiosity, was ITD ever big and if so was a big deal mad eout of it pretty much dying?

I may be mistaken, but I don't think ITD was ever very popular, although it may have had some interest in certain geographical areas (east coast?). I'm pretty sure the class was never even recognized/organized in some SCCA divisions.

[CDS]

it's fair. you could be in the trophies. you need to qualify well since we still get walked some at the starts and on the straights.

not sure what great lakes tracks you have been to but mine runs 1:49's at Mid-Ohio with the keyhole chicane & 1:49's at Road Atlanta.

come to the IT spectacular at Mid-Ohio for the best competition "locally"

Thanks for the info. I'm in Mississippi, and I've only run at Memphis and St. Louis so far. I'm going to try to get to Barber, Road Atlanta and Nashville this year if possible. Everything else is just too long of a tow to fit with my work schedule.

If I understand the rules correctly, to legally run my car in B, I have to make it an exact copy of an Si model, including any body trim parts that may have been Si-specific, correct? I need to study up on the differences between the various models.

[shwah]

How competitive is the 1st gen CRX in ITB?

IMO this car has the potential to be an absolute front runner. But I don't know Hondas as well as ... um ... well the Honda guys.

[lateapex911]

Tom, your times at Road Atlanta were impressive, and, correct me if I'm wrong, but you didn't get a lot of miles under your belt this year (and wasn't it your first time there?) and I know your tires, at least, weren't 10/10ths...

[ddewhurst]

Great thread.

***On the other hand, if even one piece of the unibody is different and you leave it, you're not legal.***

& everything else about the cars. BUT, no worry because I'm sure you all have the knowledge of ALL the different model cars. The fat lady ain't even started to sing.

Oh crap, it don't matter because no one in IT ever writes paper.

[shwah]

Great thread.

***On the other hand, if even one piece of the unibody is different and you leave it, you're not legal.***

& everything else about the cars. BUT, no worry because I'm sure you all have the knowledge of ALL the different model cars. The fat lady ain't even started to sing.

Oh crap, it don't matter because no one in IT ever writes paper.

You still don't get it Dave. If someone wants to cheat in this manner - they could do be doing so all along. Cheaters were not waiting for a rule to let them use an illegal body shell, or illegal parts. Competitors that don't know enough about a particular model to spot the difference are as in the dark now as they were then.

Policing the class does need to happen, and we the drivers are on the hook for that, but it has nothing to do with this rule.

[Knestis]

It won't make any difference, Chris.

DD just liked to kick at anthills. His arguments don't have to be grounded in any substantive logic to do that.

K

[lateapex911]

Oh crap, it don't matter because no one in IT ever writes paper.

Be careful when using absolutes in your arguments, DD, because it's an easy way to not make your point.

Or, maybe you haven't been paying attention, but I've seen, and been a part of, some paper writing....and come to think of it, if I recall correctly, you have to.

[ddewhurst]

I have had paper written towards me, but the paper didn't stick.

ID some paper that stuck.

As the rules slip the ant hills get smaller.

WE have all read stuff on this site that wouldn't stand paper but no one writes the paper.

[Gregg]

D some paper that stuck.

Read the current FasTrack.

[tom91ita]

Thanks for the info. I'm in Mississippi, and I've only run at Memphis and St. Louis so far. I'm going to try to get to Barber, Road Atlanta and Nashville this year if possible. Everything else is just too long of a tow to fit with my work schedule.

If I understand the rules correctly, to legally run my car in B, I have to make it an exact copy of an Si model, including any body trim parts that may have been Si-specific, correct? I need to study up on the differences between the various models.

at first glance, i saw "madison" and was thinking "WI" so the ARRC is likely a better place. the 84 crx is most like the 85 si with regards to headlights, etc. iirc. the 86-87 had heavier bumpers, etc. door panels, rocker panel covers, front rear bumpers of your 84 should be the same. instrumentation for the speedo and tach might be different?

but suspension wise, they were effectively the same. the biggest difference body wise was the SI sunroof and i know folks on here have talked about swapping roofs/skins but the section of the gcr escapes me. so that would be the one part you need to explore.

[Knestis]

The sunroof fill rules are one of the potential sticking points for something like the CRX example. If (for example, I don't know) the ITA version of the Toyota Paseo (the rat motor) ONLY came with a sunroof, but the ITB (mouse motor) Paseo was a smooth top, one couldn't actually bring that no-sunroof lid with them to ITA - IF there were any structural differences (e.g., omission of extra bracing around the hole) that would result after the hole were skinned over by whatever means.

K

[tom91ita]

i have read internet rumors about folks cutting off the crx si roof and installing a non-si roof and that was deemed acceptable. perhaps more socially than rules.

i won't protest you. just be glad to see another BEE!

[spnkzss]

The sunroof fill rules are one of the potential sticking points for something like the CRX example. If (for example, I don't know) the ITA version of the Toyota Paseo (the rat motor) ONLY came with a sunroof, but the ITB (mouse motor) Paseo was a smooth top, one couldn't actually bring that no-sunroof lid with them to ITA - IF there were any structural differences (e.g., omission of extra bracing around the hole) that would result after the hole were skinned over by whatever means.

K

I have very mixed feelings about that. To the rule, that is correct and yes I agree there has to be a line drawn somewhere, but, if I hurt my car bad enough that I need a new tub, I have a 1990 ITC Civic that is going to get an ITA transplant so that I can continue to race. Protest me and win, that's fine, but at least I will get to continue racing for a little while (until there are too many protests and they yank my license).

[tom91ita]

from 2009 GCR

Removable sunroof or T-top may be retained if bolted or welded in, or removed completely. Glass sunroofs must be removed. All sunroofs maye replaced with panel or replacement skin of the same material as the original surrounding roof material.

i think the language of "or replacement skin" is where the ambuiguity lies. a replacement skin is obviously not a "panel"

part of my curiousity is due to the itc crx for sale.....

[ddewhurst]

***Read the current FasTrack.***

Gregg, IT paper.

There was some SM paper that stuck this past weekend at Moroso. Driver & owner, 6 months each & $250.00 each.

[tom91ita]

***Read the current FasTrack.***

Gregg, IT paper.

.......

i think this is the IT paper Gregg was referring to:

https://improvedtouring.com...ad.php?t=25258