So about these Pony Cars for ITR...

[CRallo]

I was keeping my fingers crossed waiting for the 2009 GCR, but no such luck...

What is the status of the "Pony Car" Proposal? When can we expect somesort of news? Is there anything we can do to help it along? Anyone else out there waiting for this? any other random thoughts?


thanks!!

[Mike Guenther]

Chris,
in the 2009 GCR on page 344, listed in ITR, is the 1999 - 2002 Ford Mustang with V-6, 3797cc engine displacement at 2670 lbs minimum weight with driver. At 3797cc and 2670 pounds it is the best engine to weight ratio in ITR.

It should be a blast to drive. I'll bet there are several built in the next year or two.

Compare that to the following;
Porsche 911S Carerra at 2687cc and 2400 lbs.
Porsche 944 S2 at 2990cc and 2810 lbs.
Porsche 911 SC at 2994cc and 2630 lbs.
Ford Mustang at 3797cc and 2670 lbs. (Wow! )
B M W 325iS at 2494cc and 2765 lbs.
B M W Z4 at 2494cc and 2795 lbs.

[quadzjr]

However every other car in that list have much better suspensions suited for racing and have more of an aftermarket following. (Headers, CAI, etc..) Still woudl be a lot cheaper to run. If I could afford it I would build one... But then again I enjoy building anything and watching people do well in them.

edit: damit Ron built me to it.. ditto

[Mike Guenther]

It seems to me that the V-8 cars should have a new IT class (ITV), or be satisfied in AS or Touring. It doesn't make sense to me to put V-8 cars into a class with a significant percent of 4 cylinder motor cars, like the 1796cc Toyota Celica GTS. They all become back markers unless they are moved down into ITS or ITA. It'll be a V-8 and V-6 class.

[Knestis]

It's a little bit of an overstatement but it's kind if interesting to me that people tend to fall into one of two camps on this question - they either think the V8 ITR cars will suck, or they'll dominate.

Work continues on the details, guys. For the reason I mention above, it's been challenging, and I *personally* don't expect the conversations to get any easier as it moves to the Board and membership...

K

[Mike Guenther]

Kurt,
I'm not necessarily against the V-8 cars in ITR. I don't know all the facts about HP vs weight and all of the other performance factors that the ITAC and CRB considers. But it just seems to me like the V8s are capable of a lot more power than anything currently in IT, and there's already an AS class or other classes where they fit in. If the Toyota Celica GTS is 1796cc and the Mustang V6 is 3797cc, then how much bigger is the V8? 3 times as much as the Celica?

Does it make sense? Or do these cars need another class because of some other problems or costs associated with running in AS or Production classes?

I won't get upset if V8 cars start to take over the ITR class because I will have a blast racing against the ITS car that's in front of me or behind me. I'm in this for the adrenalin and the camaraderie. The adrenalin comes from racing with cars that are in my vicinity on the track and the camaraderie comes from friends in the paddock or on IT.com. I appreciate all the work and time spent by board members and club volunteers who make all the efforts to make our events safe and fun. Thank you!

I only add my comments because I'm in the ITR class and I don't understand the reasons that this class is preferred over AS for these American Sedan muscle cars. Thank you ITAC and CRB members for trying to keep the IT classes up to date by classing more cars. I appreciate all that you do for our club.

[cjb25hs]

be satisfied in AS or Touring.

I feel very strongly about the above statement. All of the V8 pony cars have a place to run currently in AS or SS or IT as far as on a regional level. Why are they even being considered for ITR. I believe that it will just disturb the class structure.

If you take a say 1979 to 2002 fox body mustang and prep it for ITR, how much difference would there be in lap time performance versus an ASedan car. Probably less than second. Of course that would really depend on what the weight the car was set at in ITR.

[lateapex911]

I feel very strongly about the above statement. All of the V8 pony cars have a place to run currently in AS or SS or IT (??huh) as far as on a regional level. Why are they even being considered for ITR. I believe that it will just disturb the class structure.

WHY!?

First, I'm confused witrh your IT reference, but...

Lets remember, and understand one thing: IT is a popular category because of two major factors...the ruleset, and stability.

Ruleset: A good level of mods. not to much, not too little.
Stabilty: The ARRC winner doesn't get weight tossed on.

Are we going to say that 5 cylinder cars can only race in IT5? Not SS? it's not about the engine folks, it's about setting cars in a ruleset so that they compete fairly. They'll be good or great on some tracks, not so much on others. Just like any car.

Question: Would all you V8 haters deny a 928 classification? What if there were a car in the class that had equal engine performance? Should it be denied?

[Andy Bettencourt]

I feel very strongly about the above statement. All of the V8 pony cars have a place to run currently in AS or SS or IT as far as on a regional level. Why are they even being considered for ITR. I believe that it will just disturb the class structure.

If you take a say 1979 to 2002 fox body mustang and prep it for ITR, how much difference would there be in lap time performance versus an ASedan car. Probably less than second. Of course that would really depend on what the weight the car was set at in ITR.

What kind of car do you run?

[Cobrar05]

I feel very strongly about the above statement. All of the V8 pony cars have a place to run currently in AS or SS or IT as far as on a regional level. Why are they even being considered for ITR. I believe that it will just disturb the class structure.

If you take a say 1979 to 2002 fox body mustang and prep it for ITR, how much difference would there be in lap time performance versus an ASedan car. Probably less than second. Of course that would really depend on what the weight the car was set at in ITR.

I think if you feel this way, you must know very little about the V8 classes that you are talking about. AS requires a formula that has not been available in a Mustang street car since 1995. The any Mustang there after built with the 4.6L DOHC engine, 13" brakes and 17" wheels needs to be torn down to a roller to be effective.

These cars are now allowed in AS with a weight penalty that makes participation unrealistic.

There is a reason there are 10-15 of these cars per event racing NASA American Iron and 2 or 3 AS cars and no Touring cars. How many ITR cars are there on average?

The SCCA needs to make these cars easier to race, somewhere, somehow and with a chance to be competitive. Its a great source of entries that is not being properly marketed to.

[Ron Earp]

Chris refers to the V8 Pony Car proposal that was put in sometime ago.

I think the 99-04 would be fun car for ITR but not in the same realm as BMWs and other multivalve per cylinder cars with overhead cams. Next year the new body style Mustang should be available for ITR. It uses a SOHC 4L motor at 210 stock hp, should be perfect for ITR. Better suspension than the eariler cars (as good as live rears get), better brakes, more flexible power plant, and even better looks, if that means anything. I'm definitely going to ask to have it classed. Sooner or later the old Z will bite the bullet.

The V8 cars in the proposal were recommended at a much higher weight than what is discussed here. Basically the proposed versions averaged around 3200 lbs including the adder for torque but no modifers for suspension geometry or brakes.

[BruceG]

I was keeping my fingers crossed waiting for the 2009 GCR, but no such luck...

What is the status of the "Pony Car" Proposal? When can we expect somesort of news? Is there anything we can do to help it along? Anyone else out there waiting for this? any other random thoughts?


thanks!!

Chris...my 2009 GCR came in today's(Sat)mail.

Bruce