Data Aquisition - What do you use?

[RSTPerformance]

Data aquisition is on one of my wish lists... I have not had much time to lurk lately so I am not sure if this has been discussed (I tried a search and found 2007 to be the last discussion...).

Anyway, what system do you use and why?

What is the best system (no money limit)?

What is the best deal for the budgeted racer?

Thanks, I am sure your replies will be valuable to a lot of lurkers!

Raymond "I hope everyone had a great holiday!!!" Blethen

[mattbatson4570]

admittedly, I'm in the same boat as you and data acq is also on my wish list.
I have studied traqmate data at a friends house where he had his data laid over three other racers data for comparison.
I found the map very easy and intuitive with regards to understanding what you are looking at. Within a few minutes I was able to see what each driver was doing differently.

Apparently the traqmate is very easy to switch from car to car?

traqmate and DL-1 both use an accelerometer AND GPS.
Some just use one or the other?

[JLawton]

Raymond,

****Warning**** This is coming from a non data geek!!!


We use a DL-1. I didn't do a lot of research on them but since the other guys were using it, it only made sense to get that. It's great when you have guys running in the same class that you can compare the data to. I think that's an import part of the decision. if you can't compare to other drivers/cars, you lose half the capabilities.

I don't know how it compares to the others, but the DL-1 has a lot of different in-put options. I'm only scratching the surface at this point. I would guess the DL-1 by itself has improved my lap times by a full second, maybe more. You can't buy a better "go fast" part for the money.

That being said, I don't find the DL-1 easy to learn. You really need someone who's familiar with it to show you the basics.

I'm sure Andy, Greg or Jeremy can give a lot more insight than I can.

[Doc Bro]

I just wanted to shamelessly (or not so shamelessly!!) post this here....

R

https://improvedtouring.com...ad.php?t=25300

[gran racing]

I have a DL1 and am pretty clueless how to actually use the data still. Hopefully this year I'll have more time to spend learning how to use the darn thing properly. I would be happy to share data with you though Ray.

Greg, I'm telling ya, you really should do some online basic classes. (I still would love to take advantage of your offer to show me a few basic things. I'll contact ya when you get back from your trip.)

[dominojd]

Greg, I'm telling ya, you really should do some online basic classes. (I still would love to take advantage of your offer to show me a few basic things. I'll contact ya when you get back from your trip.)

Yeah I think Greg or Jeremy Lucas, should have an online Data Aq. for dummies 101. An online class once a week over the winter would be nice.

But we all know Greg is a douche so he would never do it, Jeremy?

[924Guy]

Some time back, I put together (with help from a couple of other drivers) a presentation on how to use data acq systems for driver training. I probably oughtta put it on my website...

Anyway, I use an AIM Mychron3 XG Log. I chose it because of cost (under $1k), good software for data analysis, and ease of installing other sensors of my choosing.

Best no-limits system? I've never worked with Pi or the like; however, I do work (at the day job) with systems costing over 20-30k. However they're for somewhat different purposes. I would expect that something like the higher-end RaceTech systems would be it... I guess it's more features you're after than anything else...

For top-end stuff, you want systems that can log at 50Hz (to track suspension movement for shock tuning), CAN bus interface to plug in and log signals from your engine ECU (not that we have those), as many input channels as possible, as much memory as possible, and preferably the ability to plug in custom sensors (so you're not locked into buying only the sensors from the data system mfgr.). Burst or even continuous telemetry capability would be nice too. Data download style can relate too; if you have the option to just swap out memory cards (rather than plugging in a cable to a powered-up system), that's faster. The more segments the track can be split into, the better. Predictive lap times are nice too.

For even the basic system/budget club racer, I'd want to at least log speed, RPM, lap times of course, and lateral G's. The quality of the data analysis SW is also relevant; you want something you can understand well enough to use and get good results out of quickly. I would definitely recommend a GPS-based system, like Racepak; mine isn't, I got it before they became widespread and good, and I still futz with the beacon timing as a result. Next one will be GPS-based.

The display is also relevant. I prefer the style that can be mounted on or behind the wheel (mine's right behind). The two most important features to me are to know rpm's and lap time; specifically, having a programmable shift light feature allows me to ignore the tach. Instead, I just drive till all the lights flash, which is easy to see while watching the track, and shift then. Having lap times tracked allows me to do a couple of things. If it's a qual session, I can track how I'm doing, and can park the car when I know I've got the qual time I need - particularly useful if I'm just about to hit traffic or trying to conserve equipment. During a race, knowing my current (rather than best overall) lap time allows me to track how I'm doing, if I'm holding my pace, if I can chase down the guy in front or if I know I'm going fast enough to hold off the guy behind. Knowing I don't have to push faster than I already am means I don't overdo it in a corner I'm already maxed out in, therby driving off and stuffing the car or losing spots.

Seems like you should be able to get a good, GPS-based system for under $1000.

Additional things that are nice to have - knowing braking and throttle points are good, so if you can add those on to your system one way or another, it will be useful once you start to become familiar with the basics. They all usually come with temp and/or pressure sensors, but those are more useful for monitoring your engine (oil press, temp etc) which is probably not so much what you're after with the system now. Knowing when you're on the brake, when you go full-throttle, and how consistent those points are will become more useful.

As for steering, I've had it for some time in my car. It's barely useful for me,, and will just not be something anyone less than an expert is going to get enough out of to justify the expense (of the sensor). So instead, I would recommend (if you really want to see what you're doing with the steering) - use a videocamera. Ideal would be a dual PIP system like the Chasecam setup (or the one I have) that allows you to both see the driver steering input and the track in front. This would allow you to correlate driver inputs with the track (and possibly what's going on out there).

That's a start, hope it helps. I'll post back if I get my presentation and notes uploaded. It used to be on the Waterford site, but they've dropped the link.

[Jeremy Billiel]

IMO, The DL1 is the best setup there is out there. Greg Amy and Jeremy Lucas are the data junkies (although I know the software very well too!), but I am the behind the scenes idiot who installs these things. The huge advantage that the DL1 has is the extra inputs into the data logger. For instance, in the Integra v2 we will have RPM, Air Fuel Ratio, Steering Angle, VTEC on/off, Brake, TPS, Oil Pressure, Oil Temp, Water Temp and a couple others we are thinking about.

It makes it awesome to have all this data at your finger tips and I would argue that this software alone comparing my driving to Greg's is why I gained so much time this year while only being in the car 1.5 weekends.

However, DL1 is certainly not the least expensive out there.

So IMO, it comes down to what are the others in your class/team using, how much of a geak you are and how much you want to spend.

Does that help?

[rsportvolvo]

What do you want to do with your data acquisition system (DAS)? Engineering tool or digital dash? Do you know how many channels you want to log? What are your primary goals for the DAS? Driver development, chassis development, etc.? The book below will help you answer these questions.

SAE recently published a new DAS book by Jorge Segers. I am almost finished reading it and it is by far the best DAS book I've come across (never read Buddy Fey's Data Power as the price is @ $300/copy). The author primarily uses MoTeC, Pi Technology, and Race Technology's DL-1 for figures, screen shots and examples. I would say that this book is second only to RCVD in my Motorsport library.

http://www.sae.org/technical/books/R-367

**SAE member price is $73.24 shipped. PM me if you want me to order you a copy.

Here's the author's website (good links).

http://jorge.segers.googlepages.com/

-MoTeC and Pi Technology are for large budgets. Porsche Motorsport uses MoTeC and most IRL teams use Pi Technology. I saw an ITS 944 with a MoTeC ADL a few years back.

-Bosch Motorsport had very non-user friendly software a few years back. Audi Sport uses Bosch. Bosch has a package deal for EMS and DAS aimed at low level Pro and club racers.

-Stack is good and IT forum member Colin Harmer is a dealer and supported SPEED World Challenge with their Stack control DAS. Stack is also the ACO's control DAS for Le Mans.

-AIM, Racepak, and the Race Technology's DL-1 are good budget systems. Used by many low level Pro teams and club racer's.


Depending on your sparky skills you should be able to build the loom(s) yourself. I have a list of budget suppliers for Tefzel wire, connectors, tools, and supplies. PM me if you're interested.

Many sensors can be sourced from newer cars from junkyards/recyclers on the cheap.

I worked as a DAG for 2 years and I'm pretty familiar with DAS. Hope this helps.

[ekim952522000]

[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Competition-Data-Logging-Manual-Speedpro/dp/184584162X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1230775440&sr=8-1[/ame]

I found this book to me much better from a begineer to intermediate stand point and even though I own this and the SAE book this is the one I keep going back to (price is allot better to)

[Andy Bettencourt]

Raymond,

****Warning**** This is coming from a non data geek!!!


We use a DL-1. I didn't do a lot of research on them but since the other guys were using it, it only made sense to get that. It's great when you have guys running in the same class that you can compare the data to. I think that's an import part of the decision. if you can't compare to other drivers/cars, you lose half the capabilities.

I don't know how it compares to the others, but the DL-1 has a lot of different in-put options. I'm only scratching the surface at this point. I would guess the DL-1 by itself has improved my lap times by a full second, maybe more. You can't buy a better "go fast" part for the money.

That being said, I don't find the DL-1 easy to learn. You really need someone who's familiar with it to show you the basics.

I'm sure Andy, Greg or Jeremy can give a lot more insight than I can.

I am in the same situation as Jeff and I agree 100%. Feel free to stop by the toter home at any regional and you will find Nick doing analysis for our customers all day. We bring a dedicated PC and set it up for them to use. Our more savvy customers do their own comparisons between each other, their historical bests, etc.

And like anything - buy one that you can grow into if you can afford it. The DL-1 is the best pic in NER IMHO because so many poeple use them.

[Ed Funk]

Geez, Andy, you up early or late?!?! Happy New Year!

[jimalley]

Jeff and Andy have it correct when they recommend finding out what other people are running. I know this first hand as I have been running a AIM MXL Pista for two years and haven't a clue of how to get any useful information out of it. So far it is an $1,800.00 shift light.

[Seabee]

I have been using an AIM XG Log system for 3 years. I have it on both cars and there is a good number of racers using them in NER.

Jim, you can PM me if you have some specific questions or let me know what events you will be at. I am sure we can get some basic data for you to use. It also depends what sensors you have since the 90 ECU will not plug directly into to MXL.

r/
Steve

[SPiFF]

I run a DL1. Main reason is people I know with similar cars are running it. This makes it nice to share data and learn from each other.

I also like the external inputs, though atm I am only logging RPM, TPS and Brake from the ECU.

[Flyinglizard]

After working with a few different systems; The most usefull data is speed and throttle setting,interfaced with time and video. This gives you valid turning points in relation to actual speed and throttle position. Steering wheel value is also a speed increaser. If the driver is adding wheel as he approaches the apex, etc.
Also; I have found a lot of info, just watching the steering wheel angle values. Lots of drivers cant tell me what the car is doing, push/loose whaterver.
The video, pointed at the steering wheel and tach can be as useful as any basic system,IMHO. Add a full throttle dash light, along with a brake light for a lot of referance values, very cost effective.
The trackmate needs another car to go faster. But has alot of Data.
There is a Vortex discussion on this also,under road racing.
Mike Ogren

[Flyinglizard]

Video showing good apexes and turn in points is still the most usefull data.
MM

[JLawton]

Video showing good apexes and turn in points is still the most usefull data.
MM

I agree. But the problem is most in-car video doesn't catch how close you are to hitting the right spot. It may look like you're apexing at the right spot but in reality you may be several feet (or more) off the apex. The best video is from a car behind you.

Also, watching what the hands are doing on the wheel is helpful too.

[lateapex911]

For an NER guy, it's DL1

I got an AIM MXL system in the early days, I like it, and it's very useful, but, it would be more useful if I had other cars to compare to.

[924Guy]

Jake - if you'd like to compare AIM data, drop me a line... I know we've at least got decent overlap at Mid-O and Atlanta...