Super Touring is IT

[Knestis]

It'll never fly. It's a category based on expediency and politicking rather than any kind of strategic planning or vision. Doomed, I tell you.

K

[Speed Raycer]

The only way I see it really flying is IT guys double dipping for seat time OR guys that run with other sanctioning bodies dropping by for a weekend where they're not running in ITE or SP. The only real neat part for me is that some of the high dollar ITE guys will possibly step out and I'll get an extra lap or two per race

[tom_sprecher]

It'll never fly. It's a category based on expediency and politicking rather than any kind of strategic planning or vision. Doomed, I tell you.

K

I love expediency and politicking and am constantly using it to overcome strategic planning and vision. How else am I supposed to I make a living in sales?

This could solve my 12A housing dilemma. 1985 and newer? I'm out unless that new VIN rule lumps my car into that spec line. How does that work again?

[tom_sprecher]

Tom, I just saw your post on IT.com. For some reason I am locked out of the site and can not post. There is no VIN rule in Super Touring, so if the last year of a certain model was built in 1985 they all are in. You could street port your 13B or put a Renisis in. Please post this on IT.com for me.

Peter Keane
SCCA CRB

[pkeane2]

Thanks Tom, I am back under a new name. STU is going to be a good class.

Jhooten, the rules say you can peice part the dash back in. PK

[pkeane2]

Kirt, STU is 1.1 pounds per CC, not a lot of politics there.

[xr4racer]

Peter, nice to meet you at the SCCA "meeting" at the PRI in Fla. I think once people understand that this is by far the easiest way to go National racing it will takeoff. Most on this site already have an eligible car, now you can do many other modifications and race at a different weight. How many years have some IT racers wanted IT to be a national class? I never did, but for those that did here is your chance. If there are 175 or so entries (2.5 per National) for STO and the same for STU in 2009 the classes will be included in the 2010 Runoffs at Road America. I would think that for IT people who normally race at Road America this is a no brainer. It will be tough to get entries this year because the Runoffs can not happen until 2010, but if some people enter their home track national races for more track time the Runoffs in 2010 will finally have IT cars.

Matt Miller

[JoshS]

I've gotta disagree, Matt.

This isn't a national IT class. It's one thing to "give it a go" in your IT car, but as soon as some cars built to the ruleset show up, it will cease to be fun. Actually converting an IT car to the ST rules in order to compete with those people would be very expensive and then you wouldn't have an IT car anymore.

With all due respect, Peter, I can't understand why the board would think that creating a new ruleset (and then re-creating it 2 years later) is more likely to result in some form of successful jolt to the national program than just allowing a bunch of existing well-built cars, that are built to a well-regulated ruleset, and driven well by active club racing members into the national program. The math just doesn't work for me.

[Knestis]

Kirt, STU is 1.1 pounds per CC, not a lot of politics there.

The politicking is in the class's very existence. It's a solution to a problem that hasn't been clearly defined. Or maybe (a) it just hasn't been explained, or (b) I'm just slow to catch on. And to be fair, my bias - based on my experience - is that classes that get created to "give XXX a place to race" don't generally have much success. Include in that, classes that exist but get other cars catch-all'd into them.

Classes that are thought out with some kind of strategy in mind - or changes that are strategic responses to new opportunities, like the superbike-based DSR movement - hang in there.

Ultimately, I'll bet that the genesis of BP/DP can be traced back to a tiny handful of drivers who had the ear of someone with clout, and said, "Gee, I think it would be really awesome if I had a place to race this cool bastard car that I bought. Oh, yeah - and it would be a plus if I could do Nationals and get to go to the RunOffs." SURELY, it wasn't the result of someone sitting down and doing an analysis of how many ex World Challenge cars were sitting idle, and deciding that there was a better-than-even chance that they'd strum up enough of them to make a viable category.

I say this because the class was still brand new when people started tossing in other options to fill the fields - namely, IT. Now a name change. It just wasn't very well planned out, was it?

K

[mustanghammer]

Kirt, STU is 1.1 pounds per CC, not a lot of politics there.

Peter,

I have looked over the STU rules with respect to my 1st Gen RX7 and would like to see clarifications in some areas. Since these are not necessarily yes/no answers where can I send my questions?

For the record I still think that a full build RX7 EP car is allot cheaper than a full build RX7 STU car. However, some of the ST induction, suspension and brake allowances are interesting for someone just wanting to go faster than they do in IT.

[EBSNASCAR]

Tom, I just saw your post on IT.com. For some reason I am locked out of the site and can not post. There is no VIN rule in Super Touring, so if the last year of a certain model was built in 1985 they all are in. You could street port your 13B or put a Renisis in. Please post this on IT.com for me.

Peter Keane
SCCA CRB

So, if I read this right...I can take my 1979 ITB Ford Mustang and run STU?

[tom_sprecher]

You could street port your 13B or put a Renisis in.[/FONT]

At 1.1#/cc and assuming the typical factor of two for rotaries that would give me 2616cc I'd have to add almost 600# to my car? Is that right?

Every cloud has a silver lining. As a bonus to switching to STU I can give up on any diet I was trying to keep to.

[pballance]

I was wondering about rotaries and STU so I looked at the rules. 1.1/cc does not include wankles. The rule is:



"4.

The Mazda 13B and Renesis rotary engines are permitted at 2600

lbs. The 13B may be street ported. The Renesis shall remain

unported."

Then you have to look at the turbo rules and the inlet size. Oh well, RX8 loses again......

Link to the rules: http://www.scca.com/documents/Club%2...20GCR/STCS.pdf

[pkeane2]

I am going to try and take these one at a time. So if I miss someone’s question let me know and I will address it. It is a real pain to be taking on the IT committee first.

Josh: As you know, I was big supporter of IT going National, but I believe the membership is maybe 60/40 in favor of it. These classes give the current IT cars a place to race at a National event. They also allow for most of the ITE car out there and cars competing in other sanctioning bodies to race Nationals. These are the type of cars street tuners are building and we are finally given them a place to race.

The original rules were based off of WC and tuner cars. The tuner cars were required to run a SIR, that no one wanted to run. With five years of incubator status, what were we suppose to do, not try and improve the rule set? I believe that there are a lot of IT type guys that want to run National races. If you currently own an ITS or ITR car they are good beginnings for a STU car. If you have done an engine swap and run with another club, you now have a place to race.

Kurt: There was no secret deal to get ST into the National program. The old WC guys wanted a place to race and the GT community did not really want tub cars in their group. It was my first CRB meeting and both the GT and WC guys made good cases and so we gave them their own class. We also saw it as a way to bring new members in. Right or wrong, that is how it happened.

I guess you can blame the name change on me, I never thought Prepared was attracting the people we were looking for.

Z3: There is a weight break for front wheel drive cars and intake manifolds must be stock.

Steve: I guess I am standing up and I hope you know how funny that is.

EBSNASCAR: Yes

Tom: The rules say you have to weigh 2600 pounds so that is only +133 pounds by my calculations.

[shwah]

Steve: I guess I am standing up and I hope you know how funny that is.

BTW - that was a really fun race in November. Can't wait until next time.

[Z3_GoCar]

.....

Z3: There is a weight break for front wheel drive cars and intake manifolds must be stock.

.....

Funny because my motor was legal for Speedvision back in '01 but wouldn't be legal for STU. The manifold is stock, but from a previous generation.

The problem with the restrictor was it's limited avalibility, one of the sources didn't even have the correct size, and making the air box stiff enough to not crush during testing.

Like Josh mentioned the weight to hp rules seem to favor the smaller displacement cars. In SoPac we have a regional class called Radial Sedan. I can't run with these rules, by the end of the weight process I wind up at close to 3500lbs, which is nearly 1000lbs more than my cars current weight. It does seem to work for the 1.8-2.3 liter guys though. I'd always planned on giving it (DP/SU) a try once my car was ITR legal though, it seemed easier than trying to adapt the restrictor then bolt on weight, and worry about not having taken advatage of the fabricated rear suspension option.