Cold-Air Intakes (CAI) for 88-91 CRX Illegal

[Xian]

Bzzzzzt. Wrong answer. I'm going to continue to politely disagree with you Jeff. The stock intake has an opening where the air enters the intake tract. THAT is the stock location. You can argue that the air that enters your Air Snake actually starts further up stream but if your stock intake doesn't go as far as the Air Snake then you are illlleeeeegul. Arguing a stance doesn't make it tenable. See Ginsberg vs. Moser 2008.

My approach to the intake is going to be to head "down and forward" relative to the engine. Plenty of good "cold air" on the underside of the car and it's all within the confines of the loosely described "engine bay" area.

[JeffYoung]

My Air Snake will kick your head down ass!

Seriously though, I'm not going to do it. I'm building a "Nascar" air box under the cowl, inside the engine bay, and entirely legal.

But I think coupling the free pipes rule with basically an undefined stock location is asking for trouble.

We don't define stock location anywhere. My car just has a hole with a pipe attached to it. Does that mean I can't still a filter on the other side of the hole? I think most of you guys say I could, but once you do that, you arguing that the stock pickup location is defined by a point in the "air stream" itself, and not by a tube or bodywork, and then the arguments start about where the limits of the intake air stream are.

[JoshS]

We don't define stock location anywhere. My car just has a hole with a pipe attached to it. Does that mean I can't still a filter on the other side of the hole? I think most of you guys say I could ...

Not me. I think you can do anything you want between the upstream physical edge of the stock system (the hole in your example) and the throttle body/MAF, but you can't move the physical entry point to another location that's not "inside the engine compartment".

[JeffYoung]

I agree. But I think you have hit on the rub. Define "upstream physical edge of teh stock system."

The hole is a part of it. But certainly the air enters and makes turns through the radiator opening and then the void inside the front fender well -- all physical edges -- before entering the engine bay through the hole in the fender well.

Where I am going with this is while I don't like adding or "clarifying" rules, and not sure we should do so here because the intent is clear (to me anyway) I think we are asking for trouble. Someone is going to build an Air Snake and honestly it looks arguably legal.

Not me. I think you can do anything you want between the upstream physical edge of the stock system (the hole in your example) and the throttle body/MAF, but you can't move the physical entry point to another location that's not "inside the engine compartment".

[JoshS]

I agree. But I think you have hit on the rub. Define "upstream physical edge of teh stock system."

The hole is a part of it. But certainly the air enters and makes turns through the radiator opening and then the void inside the front fender well -- all physical edges -- before entering the engine bay through the hole in the fender well.

Gotcha.

Two points:

1) There's a big difference between the "radiator opening entry point" and the downstream "air intake duct hole entry point." Air entering the former goes all over the place. Air entering the latter goes ONLY into the engine, and it ALL goes into the engine.

2) IMO, We don't need a rule to clarify these entry points. Too many words only make it possible to find more gray. Under the current wording, I think it's highly likely that the same people that ruled on the ARRC protest would find your proposed intake illegal, and that's the way it should be. I think we agree on that.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Jeff, any pics of the stock stuff?

[Xian]

My Air Snake will kick your head down ass!

Maybe...

Seriously though, I'm not going to do it. I'm building a "Nascar" air box under the cowl, inside the engine bay, and entirely legal.

Ummm... you mean a cowl induction system?

Velocity stacks, ram air or cowl induction are not permitted unless fitted as original equipment.

[dspillrat]

Jeff,
If I could pull air legally from outside the hood....er engine compartment.........should I say..... In a heart beat.... the snake would rule!!!! Your original equipment "Snake" may be of small penetration into the well, but why give up 30-40 degree air advantage? Hell, with your "negative" rear camber you be crazy anyways........Its legal... OTOH....cowl induction could be facilitated with spring loaded hood latches I guess.....I have seen a few Z hoods rise on occasion at sppeed

Take advantage of whaT YA got.

david

[Gary L]

Here's the parts catalog drawing of a stock Volvo 142E setup. I'm currently simply running a K&N cone filter that's clamped to the forward end of the intake manifold. But I'd like to take the filter "outdoors", putting it in the location defined by the forward end of stock part #5 (which normally protudes 3 or 4 inches through the RH radiator support). Part #6 grommet would be thrown away, and in place of part #5 would be a constant diameter tube. The K&N cone would be clamped to the forward end of that tube, then a hose similar to #3 would connect it to the forward end of the intake manifold.

Seems to me this would constitute a legal setup, but I would welcome any comments.

[dspillrat]

air source obviously outside, do what you want..... stick a cone filter outside??

david

[Gary L]

The problem in my mind, as stated in an earlier post... is part #6. If I can't legally throw that part away, the scheme goes down the toilet IMO. Part #6 is thicker than the drawing represents; if left in place, it would force a much smaller tube to be used for the pass-through. Cooler air is great, but if I have to sacrifice half the cross sectional area of the tube, no thanks... I'll just duct some air towards the current filter location at the forward end of the intake manifold and let it go at that.

[JeffYoung]

Now Christian, us V8 RWD guys read the rules too......

You've seen my car. There is a space behind the plenum (where the carbs are now) that sits under a slotted grate on the hood. The grate is where the car used to taked in air to the vents into the cabin. Entirely legal to put a box under that and draw air there.

David, I truly don't think the Air Snake is legal given the INTENT of the rule, but I agree with you I see the "do what you want" if stock is outside the engine bay as well.

Gary, you are legal. I consider that o-ring to be part of the "pipes/tubes/resonators" ahead of the carb/AFM that you can modify/replace, etc. It's free. Take it out, replace with bigger tube.

Andy, I'll take some pictures of my car this weekend and send them to you for your thoughts.

Maybe...



Ummm... you mean a cowl induction system?

[Xian]

Now Christian, us V8 RWD guys read the rules too......

You've seen my car. There is a space behind the plenum (where the carbs are now) that sits under a slotted grate on the hood. The grate is where the car used to taked in air to the vents into the cabin. Entirely legal to put a box under that and draw air there.

David, I truly don't think the Air Snake is legal given the INTENT of the rule, but I agree with you I see the "do what you want" if stock is outside the engine bay as well.

Gary, you are legal. I consider that o-ring to be part of the "pipes/tubes/resonators" ahead of the carb/AFM that you can modify/replace, etc. It's free. Take it out, replace with bigger tube.

Andy, I'll take some pictures of my car this weekend and send them to you for your thoughts.

I think you read 'em with too tight of an interpretation Carbs? Huh? You mean those things you can use as paperweights now that you've gone EFI?

Looking at the pic above, I'd consider the donut to be part of the intake... seems like you could ditch it and go from there.

[GKR_17]

Jeff,

Take your fender source logic to the extreme and apply it to the standard engine compartment... all the air in the engine compartment must come from somewhere so the actual source is outside the engine compartment. Clearly not legal though.

[JeffYoung]

That's a good point.

So how do you define a "stock" air pickup location that is outside the confines of the engine bay? Would limit to to simply drawing air from teh same spot (which I think is the intent of the rule and an intent which I will follow)? Or do you believe that it means you basically can run pipes and tubing anywhere along the "air intake stream" within the confines of the bodywork?

I think most of us believe the correct interpretation is a hybrid -- you can put a filter or air box in the general location, outside the engine bay, of the stock air pick up.

I'm just not sure that is logically consistent with the "strict" interpretation of the rule which would require stock pickup hardware or the "liberal" one that allows the Air Snake.

Jeff,

Take your fender source logic to the extreme and apply it to the standard engine compartment... all the air in the engine compartment must come from somewhere so the actual source is outside the engine compartment. Clearly not legal though.