MiDiv Schedule

[SLUF]

More races in the eastern part of the division! Bring em on Phil!

[tnord]

More races in the eastern part of the division! Bring em on Phil!

are you ok with your region losing $5000-$10,000 on these events?

[SLUF]

Travis, your point is well taken and certainly a consideration for Mid South Region. I do wonder if you have intimate knowledge of the Mid South Region's race operating budget and financial statement for the year in order to be making comments of this nature. If Phil thinks he can have additional races and has the budget to do so then who are we to criticize his efforts to promote club racing in this part of the division. Be happy that SOMEONE is going the extra mile or lap to give us racers a place to feed our addictions. I feel sure his target market for these additional events is not only Midwest Division racers but also racers from Tennessee, Mississippi, Louisiana, and Alabama. If Phil is thinking about an enduro event that would bring an element of competition to the Midwest Division IT participants not seen in the recent past. Lots of fun it sounds like!

[CCARVER]

Travis, your point is well taken and certainly a consideration for Mid South Region. I do wonder if you have intimate knowledge of the Mid South Region's race operating budget and financial statement for the year in order to be making comments of this nature. If Phil thinks he can have additional races and has the budget to do so then who are we to criticize his efforts to promote club racing in this part of the division. Be happy that SOMEONE is going the extra mile or lap to give us racers a place to feed our addictions. I feel sure his target market for these additional events is not only Midwest Division racers but also racers from Tennessee, Mississippi, Louisiana, and Alabama. If Phil is thinking about an enduro event that would bring an element of competition to the Midwest Division IT participants not seen in the recent past. Lots of fun it sounds like!

You are correct sir. Memphis is a 5 hr tow and easy driving.
Did someone say ENDURO?
Sorry you lost money on that school Phil, We did run two drivers in one car. We will just have to bring more drivers and cars next event.
Thanks again for all the support and hard work.
Carver

[tnord]

Travis, your point is well taken and certainly a consideration for Mid South Region. I do wonder if you have intimate knowledge of the Mid South Region's race operating budget and financial statement for the year in order to be making comments of this nature. If Phil thinks he can have additional races and has the budget to do so then who are we to criticize his efforts to promote club racing in this part of the division. Be happy that SOMEONE is going the extra mile or lap to give us racers a place to feed our addictions. I feel sure his target market for these additional events is not only Midwest Division racers but also racers from Tennessee, Mississippi, Louisiana, and Alabama. If Phil is thinking about an enduro event that would bring an element of competition to the Midwest Division IT participants not seen in the recent past. Lots of fun it sounds like!

in 2008 in March when we had the SSR and lost $9400.

and yes, i do have knowledge of the losses incurred for events, but not MidSouth's entire annual operating budget. but MidSouth region is not the only entitiy at risk here, and that's what the schedule makers of the past few years are totally missing. their actions affect not only their region, but everyone around them.

and yes, phil should be thanked for volunteering his time and effort, but that doesn't mean all his decisions are financially sound. let me ask a few questions....

1) is a race with 50 cars across 30 some odd classes really a "race" at all?
2) how large of a loss should be acceptable for an event?
3) how long should the region BOD allow money losing events to continue?
4) what input should the rest of the division have on each other's schedule?
5) if we schedule more races, does that mean the region gets more entries on the year?
6) if we schedule more races, does that mean the division gets more entries on the year?
7) how much weight does a "championship" carry if you never race against more than one or two other people because everyone just stays close to home?
8) does two 50 car events, or one 100 car event do more to attract new members?
9) if the majority of your entrants are made up of SEDiv members, should you be considered part of MiDiv or SEDiv?
10) how many races are "reasonable" to have on the division calendar, and how do you determine that number?

[CCARVER]

Welcome to the volunteer organization know as SCCA.
Where 10% of the members do 100% of the work.
LA is in the Sowdiv.

[tnord]

what does that have to do with anything?

[Spikep]

There were several Memphis drivers at the Heart of Dixie race at Nashville SuperSpeedway last June. I think Phil can count on SEDiv returning the favor in May. I know it's on my calender.
Spike

[FireballPhil]

Spike, Chris, SLUF,

You guys humble me. I love racing or I would not have been involved for 30 years. I have chosen not to continue to respond to Travis because I don't know what I have done to be a spur in his side. This is not the first time that he has barked at me.

Spike, I was actually entered in the past 2 races at Nashville and I will be there in 2009 also if I have a car. I have a daughter and 2 grandsons there and they love to go to the races with me.

Guys, Have a Merry Christmas!

[tnord]

Spike, Chris, SLUF,

I have chosen not to continue to respond to Travis because I don't know what I have done to be a spur in his side. This is not the first time that he has barked at me.

Phil, please don't ignore the issues facing the entire division. I am not meaning to attack you personally, and if it were anyone else trying to add dates to the schedule, I would be all over them as well.

The regions working together on scheduling, reducing the number of events, making sure events don't overlap or all fall too close together is something I have been preaching for years. KVRG went to a two event format in 2008 instead of I believe four in 2007 (excluding runoffs). in 2007 both regional races were sparsely attended (~70), and money losers. in 2008 the one regional race held was iirc over 120 cars and made money. if MidSouth is prepared to take the loss in the name of worker recruitment, i guess participation doesn't matter. but i doubt that's the case.

you "are a spur in my side" because i very strongly believe that what you are trying to do is weakening the regional racing program in this division, and i'm trying to make everyone realize that. i want regional racing in MiDiv to be well attended, competitive, and fun. by adding events and thinning the field all three of those attributes are reduced, be it at MAM, HPT, Hallett, GIR, MMP, or wherever.....

you can ignore me as long as you want, but you won't be able to ignore a 40 car field and a big potential loss the week of the event.

[Speed Raycer]

Travis is "barking" at you, because you're one of the few organizers/planners that frequents the forums. I doubt it's anything personal, you just happen to be the only one that is around to vent to. Invite the other organizers to join in and TN will bark at everyone

It's simple supply and demand. There's too much "supply" (tracks, dates and even sanctioning bodies) and not enough money, racers or workers to meet the demand of the events. Travis doesn't want the regions to start going broke because they have less than desireable turnouts that cant even pay the track rental. I'm with Travis. I'd rather see less dates and larger fields than be able to race any weekend against two other guys in my class.

The PDX and Enduro's are a GREAT idea. The more bang for the buck you can give the entrants the better. Memphis is on my short list if there's a PDX. In fact, our plan for this year is to hit other tracks in the division (we've only raced @ GIR). Any event that has more seat time is going to get our $$$.

[buldogge]

It's not often I say this...but...I agree with Travis as well.

Less dates with good scheduling (to pace the season) will make for larger fields (hopefully)...the last couple of years have definitely been less fun with smaller fields (in ITS at least) for sure!

The whole Memphis/Mid-South Division thing is a whole 'nother ball of wax! As of late, I have often wondered if they belong in SEDiv...and...lately have wondered if STL belongs in CenDiv or GLDiv or whatever it is now given the western bias in MiDiv.

???

[tnord]

Scott's got it.

I sing this tune to anyone and everyone in the division who has anything to do with scheduling, in person, on the phone, web forums, email, whatever.... People will travel to other tracks if we quit scheduling 20 races a year at every track. when i looked at the provisional schedule and saw the shortage of events, I immediately asked myself, "ok, where am I going to travel to this year?" i want to do at least 6 MidAm races this year, I can't do that just at HPT and MAM, so guess what? i just might haul down to Hallett or up to MPH.....or maybe even STL. I really don't like STL, but it is a lot closer than either of the other two.

we can't afford to slowly keep killing ourselves like this.

[Turkflyer]

Not all of us live in the middle of the MiDiv. For those of us in Arkansas, Memphis is great....and MAM is too long a pull. A friend of mine in AS says it costs him $1000 in diesel alone to attend MAM. It's an extra day on the road for everyone down here.

[tnord]

i'm not exactly in the middle of the division either. it's a 10+hr tow from KC (which is neither the farthest point west, or north in the division) to MMP.

[FireballPhil]

I personally don't like the idea of being a part of the SE division. The Mid-South region would have the same problem there as we do in the Midiv.

I propose a separation of part of the MidWest and SouthEast division and form the "East MidWest Divsion". It would incorporate the Mid-South, Mississippi, Arkansas, STL, Southern Illinois, Tennessee, Tennessee Valley, Alabama, and Ozark Mountaing regions. It would incorporate the Memphis Motorsports Park, Gateway, the hopefully new MidContinent near Springfield, MO, Nashville Super Speedway, and Barber Motorsports.

Food for thought and I am not kidding; so flame away. I am so going to enjoy this.

[mustanghammer]

I also have to say that I agree with Travis as well.

The issue isn't just the number of events it is how closely spaced they are. Back to back events are killers and they force me to make a choice between events. All things being equal I will stay close to home if I can meet MIDAM and IT Tour requirements and get enough races in. So that means events at Memphis don't make my schedule if I can go to MAM, Hallet, HPT, MPH or STL instead (and like STL....allot). The only way to change this is to take away my option to choose. And yep - I have been to Memphis several times as Charlie Clarks tire buster and the BBQ was memorable.

Fewer dates and get more done on each weekend. This should generate better racing for the drivers and the workers. A win-win.

[shwah]

I personally don't like the idea of being a part of the SE division. The Mid-South region would have the same problem there as we do in the Midiv.

I propose a separation of part of the MidWest and SouthEast division and form the "East MidWest Divsion". It would incorporate the Mid-South, Mississippi, Arkansas, STL, Southern Illinois, Tennessee, Tennessee Valley, Alabama, and Ozark Mountaing regions. It would incorporate the Memphis Motorsports Park, Gateway, the hopefully new MidContinent near Springfield, MO, Nashville Super Speedway, and Barber Motorsports.

Food for thought and I am not kidding; so flame away. I am so going to enjoy this.

Make sure you have fully defined the problem you are trying to solve, and determined how this will help solve it. Don't do something like this 'because it seems like a good idea'. Take a look at the CenDiv GLDiv split for reference. The GLDiv club racing program took a significant hit after the split. I am not convinced that creating separate divisions (edited from 'regions' typo) will solve any of your problems, which seem to be worker and racer attendance related. Actually the concept of fewer events across the entire division seems like the simplest step to take to improve that situation.

[tnord]

I would support a redrawing of divisional lines, but would be firmly against adding another division. remember my whole thing about "slicing up the pie into smaller pieces?" that seems to be applicable here.

....and oh yeah, as Chris mentioned, we've tried this before with CenDiv/GLDiv. that didn't work out at all, and they should be rejoined.

[nsuracer]

I wish I had the magic answer to this problem. When I first joined SCCA in 65, it was my total social life. All my friends were in SCCA. I was a worker because everyone I knew was. Apparently things are not that way anymore. The new generation has other things to do. Perhaps more social events would feed the worker problem. AS to entrants: I spend 8m to 1k per weekend and I go cheap. That is rediculous. Those people with deep enough pockets to sustain that are getting older and dying off. Younger people who are starting careers and families just cant afford that.

Back in the days of Hutch, Ponca City and Lake Afton, regions did not have the track rentals to deal with. We have just about upgraded ourselves out of the market. We have too many classes. We have no spectators to help offset costs. Without some Draconian changes we are going to die.

AS to the schedule. One double regional per month, one double national per month. That is 12 races per year each, top 6 for points. That way a driver or worker can pick the events they want to go to. Drivers Schools. Must have at least one at the beginning of the season. Should be passed around to share the pain. The I.T. Tour is a great idea, but we got totally hosed at HPT. If we have 12 regionals available I.T. guys don't need it. OK, someone elses turn.