Make Head and Neck Restraints Mandatory?

[JimLill]

Anybody have any info on the new Defender system?

some numbers in here........

http://www.am-rennsport.com/HNR.html

I heard they'll start shipping to customers mid-Dec

[924Guy]

My (VERY LONG-WINDED) letter sent to CRB and BOD... (yes, my boss dreads reading my emails and reports at work, too easy to type a book... I suppose I shoulda cc'd it to the ITAC?)

I am writing to address the request for comments (Nov 08 Fastrack) on the potential mandate of use of head and neck restraints in Club Racing.

Let me preface this by spelling out my experience with H+N restraints over the past 4 years or so. I bought an ISAAC early on, in '04 as I recall, and have been using it ever since. Since then, I have been in about 6 incidents, all but one of those with the wall. I also have a HANS, as I am required to for work; I work for Bosch Engineering (in Detroit) in the area of Vehicle Dynamics - specifically development and testing of stability control systems. While it's not a typically used piece of equipment in our line of work, I spent the better part of this summer in a very high performance car on the racetrack, and was required by our customer's safety standards to use one. So I have plenty of time with that system as well, though (this being a safer test environment) we were fortunate to have no incidents resulting in use of the HANS.

So my experience with the HANS is limited to "normal" on-track driving, and I cannot rate its effectiveness in an impact. However I did experience significant pinching and bruising just in normal driving, and had MANY occasions where I spent my weekends off nursing a stiff neck and pulled muscles - which I've never experienced in my racecar, despite the greater cornering ability of the latter. (The test vehicle was equipped with full race seats, 5-points harnesses, etc, so no differences there).

By contrast, with the ISAAC, I have never experienced any such strain or injury in its use - normal or during incidents.

Of the 6 incidents I referred to above, 4 were distinctly lateral impacts (angle of impact over 45 degrees from the vehicle's longitudinal axis) with impact barriers - armco with and without tires. In EVERY case, I was able to easily walk away from the impact without any injury. Indeed, I never even experienced any neck strain or other symptoms, excepting mild headaches from the worst two hits (one onto armco at 70mph, and the following impact), despite the car suffering badly. Indeed, one lateral impact into armco was sufficient to bend the rack gear in my steering rack. Not the tie rods, the rack gear itself, a very sturdy piece of metal. Another impact was strong enough to shear a front brake caliper casting outright, among other damage.

The HANS has no benefit to the user in lateral impacts; indeed, its effectiveness is limited to a very narrow cone of about ± 15 degrees, as I recall.

The last, most recent impact, one of the more spectacular incidents, occurred only a few weeks ago at the '08 ARRC Championship ITB race in Road Atlanta. On lap 4, while struggling to regain control of my car at turn 7, I was broadsided by Sam Moore in his Volvo, who had the misfortune to be following so close as to have no chance to avoid my spinning car.

The resultant impact was the one I always feared was the worst case for us club racers; spin center track and get t-boned by the next car up, before having a chance to move out of the way. Not a headlong impact into a concrete oval-track wall, as the HANS is designed for. I can't speak for most club racers, but I know I don't race on too many street courses or ovals.

The resultant impact registered at least 5g on my data acq. system (already heavily filtered), and induced a yaw acceleration that pegged my yaw rate sensor at over 90 deg/second - truly hard to imagine - and spun the car 270 degrees back the other way. After this impact, I was able to snap the car back around, find a gear, and resume forward progress. Thanks to a good bit of luck and good preparation with the right equipment, I was not only able to finish the remaining 16 laps of Road Atlanta at a competitive pace, I was in fact able to run as high as 2nd in class before succumbing to a determined challenge and coming home 3rd on the podium. Poor Sam's race, unfortunately, was ended right after the impact, as he appeared to bounce off of my car and directly into the wall just past Turn 7.

I am certain without a doubt, on review of the data and video, that I would have been lucky to avoid serious injury if I had been wearing any lesser head/neck system - let along finish the race! In such a lateral and rotational impact, the HANS, well-acknowledge to be the best of the SFI 38.1-compliant devices, can be expected to provide little to no benefit, in my opinion.

Therefore I would like to submit my opinion to the Boards that the current statement in the rules, recommending the use of a head and neck device, be /retained as-is/. If any modification is made to the current wording, the only change I could support is "strongly recommends." Any other wording, in particular to require compliance with currently-recognized standards such as SFI 38.1, will decidedly not be in our best interests as racers. As it currently stands, such a requirement will deprive us of access to one of the most effective devices currently on the market, and one that I feel in my extensive real-world crash-test experience to be the best suited for our purposes - not the needs of a professional racing organization with decidedly different venues and goals.

I would also like to remind the Boards that the safety and head and neck requirements of different constructions of vehicles require substantially different approaches. Center nets don't make much sense in single-seater formula cars.

Please do not follow the ever-increasing trend to try to absolve the Club of liability in this dangerous sport. Let us continue to make our own responsible, well-considered decisions about what equipment best suits our needs, for the cars we drive.

Instead, if any action is to be taken, /please/ put the effort and resources of the Club into encouraging the development of improved safety devices, and into improving the access of competitors to those devices - in particular, awareness and education of what devices are available, and how they're useful. I suspect if better, more complete information became available to racers about the benefits and usage of new and existing safety devices, there would be far less resistance to the implementation of safety requirements, and resulting usage would be more effective.

Thanks for your time, your attention on this matter, and your continued efforts on behalf of the Club!

[Cobrar05]

What professional racing sanctioning bodies allow the ISAAC to be used?

Sprech: Are you suggesting member should be able to race in street clothes, without a helmet and safety belts? I don't understand where H&NR becomes anything more than the next step along those lines.

Is the SCCA mandate for a window net wrong? Is the mandate that the window net must be mounted a specific way a compound on an injustice?

[tom_sprecher]

Sprech: Are you suggesting member should be able to race in street clothes, without a helmet and safety belts? I don't understand where H&NR becomes anything more than the next step along those lines.

Is the SCCA mandate for a window net wrong? Is the mandate that the window net must be mounted a specific way a compound on an injustice?

No. I do not have any stats to back up it up but I would have to believe that the odds of having an incident where a helmet, fire suit or seat belts would prevent serious injury versus a H&N system has got to be orders of magnitude greater. Given the short history that has lead to the high cost of HNR systems I feel the cost outweighs the coverage at this point in time.

Each of the items you listed can be had for in the $100 to $300 price range and I have large selection to choose from. Make HNR systems meet those same requirements and I'll buy one. Until then I am strongly opposed to the creatation of a monopoly and being forced to support it.

[Knestis]

What professional racing sanctioning bodies allow the ISAAC to be used? ...?

Don't care. Doesn't matter.

If you'd like, I can fill you in on my personal experiences with SFI. My safety is way down the list of their priorities, and they - and their relationships with sanctioning bodies - are driving those decisions.

K

[Cobrar05]

Don't care. Doesn't matter.

If you'd like, I can fill you in on my personal experiences with SFI. My safety is way down the list of their priorities, and they - and their relationships with sanctioning bodies - are driving those decisions.

K

I see. FIA, NASCAR, IRL, ALMS and so on and so on have all shut the door on the best device for political/sales reasons?

I am not an expert on this subject, but I hope you can see where your argument has that grassy knoll tilt to it.

[gsbaker]

I see. FIA, NASCAR, IRL, ALMS and so on and so on have all shut the door on the best device for political/sales reasons?

I am not an expert on this subject, but I hope you can see where your argument has that grassy knoll tilt to it.

They made their decisions in 2003, and are not motivated to open that file again. Why bother?

[gsbaker]

...IRL...

is not on the list.

[spdmonkey]

Vaughn,
I am surprised to hear of your discomfort with the HANS. My experiences are the exact opposite. As some people know I've had nearly a dozen shoulder surgeries and for the past few years its been very painful during and after the races from the shoulder harness. The pressure exerted on my shoulder has led to numerous neck aches and on bad bumps (like turns 2-3 @IRP) horrible pain. This past year I bought a HANS and the difference was amazing. For me the belt pressure is now equally distributed and at IRP I had no pain whatsoever despite running at the front of the pack. After races my neck and shoulder felt normal. It was an excellent added bonus. Maybe the issac works for some, but for me the yoke devices are going to be perfect. YMMV.
db

[Knestis]

I see. FIA, NASCAR, IRL, ALMS and so on and so on have all shut the door on the best device for political/sales reasons?

I am not an expert on this subject, but I hope you can see where your argument has that grassy knoll tilt to it.

No, Rob - I can't. And I'll ignore your implication that I'm a loon, simply because I know you don't know any better.

I said PERSONAL experiences - as in meetings with Arnie K. and SFI "early adopters" of suit specifications, going back some 20 years. I'm not making this shit up, even though I am of course letting what I learned then influence my impressions now.

But believe what you want. You aren't alone in not understanding how SFI works. And you're muddling the entire conversation by putting FIA, NASCAR, IRL, ALMS, et al. all in the same basket. It's way more complex than "everyone" does the same thing.

K

[JimLill]

It's way more complex than "everyone" does the same thing.

eg: I heard that the FIA does not do sled tests of the HNR. The do analysis of the mechanics and physics involved and then do strength tests of the assembly and/or components...

these articles are interesting also..........

https://www.paddocktalk.com/news/htm...rder=0&thold=0

http://www.cams.com.au/content.asp?P...&ObjectID=1103

[Cobrar05]

No, Rob - I can't. And I'll ignore your implication that I'm a loon, simply because I know you don't know any better.

I said PERSONAL experiences - as in meetings with Arnie K. and SFI "early adopters" of suit specifications, going back some 20 years. I'm not making this shit up, even though I am of course letting what I learned then influence my impressions now.

But believe what you want. You aren't alone in not understanding how SFI works. And you're muddling the entire conversation by putting FIA, NASCAR, IRL, ALMS, et al. all in the same basket. It's way more complex than "everyone" does the same thing.

K

I am sure its complex. I said I was not an expert. I was not calling you a loon.
I find the H&N thing a nightmare because its not uniform. SCCA guys seem to like the ISAAC. I can't use that when I run a NASA race. I can't use that when I want to run a Mustang Challenge race. I can't use my Hybrid either in those races. I have a modest budget at best. I can't afford a different H&N and helmet package for each sanctioning body I want to race with.

[gsbaker]

What professional racing sanctioning bodies allow the ISAAC to be used?

Globally? Easier to list those that don't:

1. F1
2. NASCAR
3. A smattering of smaller organizations that could be considered Pro.

No organization has ever explicitly excluded an ISAAC system.

[lateapex911]

What professional racing sanctioning bodies allow the ISAAC to be used?

Sprech: Are you suggesting member should be able to race in street clothes, without a helmet and safety belts? I don't understand where H&NR becomes anything more than the next step along those lines.

Is the SCCA mandate for a window net wrong? Is the mandate that the window net must be mounted a specific way a compound on an injustice?

You must have me on "ignore". Read what I wrote. Maybe that will answer your questions as to the resistance you see. Or maybe I completely mis understand your point.

As to the other clubs and their requirements, wow that's great. The homeowners association in Newport Beach, CA, where lots of rich and professional folk live, requires you to paint your house one of five colors.

Do I think they really know more?

What if the UL, back when the light bulb was first invented, got together with the bulb manufacturers, and agreed to write a spec that required all lighting sources to be able to produce XX lumens of lighting energy, use electricity, and tungsten filaments. There goes the be incentive to innovate and create LEDs, vapor lighting, HID, etc.

To suggest that we "do as the other guys are doing it" is the obvious best path, because others are doing it is to ignore some hard facts, and displays some naivety in the bigger picture, IMO. The possible path THIS new mandate could follow shows signs of being very different than the mandates of the past. If you want to que up, and follow the masses, fine. But that' doesn't break new ground, or win races.

I'm not saying this is black and white, and I do see the different sides, but that means I see alternatives as well.

[spnkzss]

What professional racing sanctioning bodies allow the ISAAC to be used?

I am still having a big problem with this statement cause everybody keep saying. Just because it is DOESN'T make it RIGHT.

[evanwebb]

On the off chance that anyone would like to get back on-topic, I posted this also on the Prod website:

Just a note, if the HNR requirement is for an SFI 38.1 rated device there are several available on the market so the choice is not just the HANS. I am especially interested in the new DefNder unit which seems to have very good numbers especially in the angle/side impact scenario. Lots of people also like the ISAAC which is not SFI rated, hopefully some provision can be made there.

In terms of making the devices mandatory, maybe just ponder this: if you have a HNR already or plan to purchase one, the "rational consumer" theory of economics would seem to indicate that you should be in favor of making the devices mandatory in SCCA since there is no downside to having your marginal insurance risk reduced by having everyone on the grid wearing one (and thereby reducing risk by some amount.) If you wear one and a competitor doesn't, and that person is injured and insurance rates go up then your total cost goes up more. I don't think anyone expects that our insurance rates will go down if we are all racing wearing HNRs, the risk is rather that the current rates will go up if we don't and there are preventable injuries incurred.

In a perfect world we would have unbiased medical opinion to evaluate whether a HNR would have helped in cases of club racing accidents (SCCA, NASA, BMW, etc.) and that would help us objectively quantitatively evaluate how much extra risk we are incurring by not mandating these devices. I don't know of any such study, maybe someone on here knows of any studies or at least collection of statistics across multiple club racing organizations?

Lastly, if your opposition to these devices is based on some past event where you hit a wall with your racecar and walked away without a scratch, please don't be convinced that you have a superhuman neck and you don't need an HNR. You got lucky that time, relatively minor changes in the impact geometry might have resulted in large increases in the loads imparted to your body and you might be telling a significantly different story today. Just think about it a bit...

I've worn the HANS and the ISAAC (borrowed from friends) in the past and really its not a big deal, try it before you make a statement like "I'm not interested in racing while wearing one of those devices", borrow a HNR from a buddy at the track and wear it for a couple sessions and see what if anything you specifically don't like about it, there is probably a workaround like the sliding tethers or quick release for the HANS or using a different type of device like the damper-based ISAAC or the devices that are securely attached to the driver only like the R3 and Hybrid systems.

I'm buying an HNR before next season...

[tom91ita]

.....I'm buying an HNR before next season...

i am too. i plan to buy it early in 2009 (birthday present/excuse). after the 2009 GCR is issued.

i expect that it will not be SFI compliant. it will be from Isaac. and it will be the least expensive variant that meets a performance level that i deem is appropriate.

and if i am SOL due to changes in the future, i will give up one race event that summer to fund any replacement if i continue to race.

[tom91ita]

My (VERY LONG-WINDED) .......

Let me preface this by spelling out my experience with H+N restraints over the past 4 years or so. I bought an ISAAC early on, in '04 as I recall, and have been using it ever since. Since then, I have been in about 6 incidents, all but one of those with the wall. I also have a HANS, as I am required to for work; I work for Bosch Engineering (in Detroit) in the area of Vehicle Dynamics - specifically development and testing of stability control systems. ......

Thanks for your time, your attention on this matter, and your continued efforts on behalf of the Club!

Vaughn,

outstanding note as few have that much experience with both devices.

and upon observation of how many times you have actually "used" the Isaac, i might give you more room on the track next time....

seriously, good note and comparision of your experiences.

tom

[924Guy]

...and upon observation of how many times you have actually "used" the Isaac, i might give you more room on the track next time....

LOL!

The ironic thing is in just about every case the impact has been precipitated by my losing control without any help or contact... :eek:

[Dave Burchfield]

After reading this entire thread as well as the entire thread over at Roadrace/Autocross, there seems to be a commonality between them, and that is the people ranting about how we SCCA racers are/whiners/clueless/unconcerned about safety/HANS haters/ISAAC lovers(your choice) are individuals who either are not SCCA racers or have an axe to gring with SCCA. Interesting..........just sayin'