Ground Control upper mount for Honda

[IP2GSR]

Hi guys

I thought there was an archived thread about these but I couldn't find anything so...

I was hoping for a interpretation of the legality of the ground control upper mount that they offer for the integra and civic/CRX.

http://www.ground-control-store.com/...hp/II=647/CA=5

Would these be considered SCCA IT "legal" as the mount to the body has not changed or have these peices replaced the stock mounting location with a new one?

Does SCCA have any type of data base that we might reference to see if this has already been asked at some point.

Thanks

Dave
ITS GSR

[esuvee]

This is a pretty interesting question. To me it looks like an allowed coil-over that mounts through the stock two bolt shock mounting point.

However, I can also easily see calling it a spring perch and defining the shock as just the rod part of this assembly. I think it's interesting that the 5.b.3 paragraph about the spring perch ends with the sentence "Coil over threaded body shock/struts are permitted." Kind of implying that the spring perch discussed earlier in the paragraph is null once you switch to the legal coilovers.

Maybe this has been hashed out already and I'm way off base, but it is interesting. It would open up a lot of options, once you can re-do that hat/perch you could make it accept a eyelet style shock, yikes.

Alex

[Duc]

If I can tag an additional question since that same entries have confused me. I believe my current setup is not legal as the top spring is on the shock not the lower portion of the upper mount:



Which I am fine to have fixed, but in the process I need to make the shocks easier to adjust, since the adjustments are at the top in the cup.

Currently there is a non-serviceable pillow ball welded to the top of the mount cup with a Koni steel top with a bolt welded to the top.



So do I have to stick to the same style connection at the top of the mount like these (on the left):





Or can I use just a standard pillow bearing on the shock (like on the bottom of the Koni's) and use a thru bolt that runs across the top where the shocks mount. This will be easier to make sure it is tight and to maintain the shocks.

Or if the ground control upper mount is legal, and the cross bolt is legal, I should be able to fix my problem.

Please help as I have all of the parts and need to get my machinist friend working to get the parts together. I just want to do it right, the first time.

Thanks,

Derek

[IP2GSR]

From the 2009 GCR

5.b.1 Springs and Shock Absorbers
1. Shock absorbers may be replaced provided that the replacements (a) attach to the original mounting points, and (b) are of a non-remote-reservoir design. The number and type …………

In my mind the only questions is what would be considered the original mounting point as reference in the GCR. Looking for the definition of “original mounting point” in the glossary turns up no new information.

They do define Pickup point
Pickup point (Suspension) – The location of attachment of a suspension component on the frame or structure of the car. Pickup point is also referred to as “pivot axis.”

They do define Attachment Point
Attachment Points (Suspension) - The locations at which the fixed and moving ends of a shock absorber are mounted and/or the location of the suspension component on the frame or structure of a car.

In both cases above they indicate it is the frame or structure of the car. Would the same definition be used for Mounting point? I don’t know.

They do say that you can replace this part in a Macpherson strut equipped car but for those of us with a different suspension design it does not seem clear.

Just rambling…….

[Duc]

5. Chassis

d. Suspension Mounting Points

6. Bushing material, including that used to mount a suspension
subframe to the chassis, is unrestricted. This includes
the use of spherical bearings, so long as no suspension
component is modified to facilitate their installation. Retention
of spherical bearings by use of tack welds is allowed,
as long as the welds serve no other purpose.

Ok this just adds more confusion to the mix. So does tack welding on the spherical bearing to the top of the shock mount location fall into the above ruling?

And does the ground control upper links get voided due to "so long as no suspension component is modified to facilitate their installation"?

[Duc]

Anyone want to help some lost souls?

D

[esuvee]

So does tack welding on the spherical bearing to the top of the shock mount location fall into the above ruling?

I'm sure this is fine, it's just like replacing any other bushing on the car.

What the 'shock' includes and how it mounts is the big question. When I bought shocks for a mustang from the dealer they came with these 'hats' as one part number, what about honda factory shocks?

I am guessing that this must have been discussed ad nauseam somewhere else on this board and my search skills are just lacking because it's the type of question that aught to just light this place up.

Alex

[IP2GSR]

Anyone want to help some lost souls?

D

Well I might be still lost but at least I feel I now have found the map.... LOL It's in the GCR! Everything is in the GCR!

With further study of the 2009 GCR and I found the following definition:

Coil-Over Shock - A tubular shock absorber which contains top and bottom mounting locations for a coaxial coil spring, and is used with such a spring supporting the weight of the car.

Well there is no doubt that the suspension design on our cars is a "Coil Over" since it supports the weight of the car and since it states that a coil over shock contains a top and bottom mounting locations. The hats are not part of the chassis they are part of the shock and so are allowed to be replaced. In the end it is actually pretty clear and I would say not in the "grey" area.

I suppose the only problem I have with the wording in 5.b.1 is that it only allows for shocks to be replaced. The glossary has a definition for both shocks absorbers and coil over shocks so by the IIDSYCYC then no coilover suspension could be replaced. That is clearly not the case in practice so I feel I am solid ground.

Thanks for listening to me ramble......

Dave
ITS GSR

[jimmyc]

Dave, i'd look into the "race mounts" from GC. They have a Spherical bearing in the top mount and help eliminate side loading, also they are height adjustable which makes corner weight easy, and allows for you to adjust ride height independent of the spring perch.

They are legal since they still mount to the original location (as defined by the GCR

[IP2GSR]

Dave, i'd look into the "race mounts" from GC. They have a Spherical bearing in the top mount and help eliminate side loading, also they are height adjustable which makes corner weight easy, and allows for you to adjust ride height independent of the spring perch.

They are legal since they still mount to the original location (as defined by the GCR

I already had my eye on them and that's why I started this thread.

Thanks again

Dave