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Thread: CenDiv schedule Kettle Moraine Regional no more.

  1. #1

    Default CenDiv schedule Kettle Moraine Regional no more.

    Did anyone notice that the Kettle Moraine regional was switched to a national leaving only one regional race at Road America vs. 3 nationals and runoffs.

    Reasons range from noone wanting to run a double national to make up for Autobahn being left off the schedule to it not being fair to regional drivers to have to compete with national drivers tuning up for the runoffs.

    I'd post a link to the schedule but I can't.

  2. #2

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    I'd imagine that the IT group has some decent opinions because it fully leaves your classes out in the cold.

  3. #3

  4. #4
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    Well, my schedule just got a lot easier to figure out next year.

    After the debacle at MM last year, and the feeble attempt to run a regional at AB (one year on the North, one year on the South and done for good) I won't be heading back to MM and won't be going along for an experiment at BIR. I was looking forward to both RA doubles, but may just repurpose the cash and prepare for IT Fest and ARRC.
    Chris Schaafsma
    Golf 2 HProd

    AMT Racing Engines - DIYAutoTune.com

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by shwah View Post
    Well, my schedule just got a lot easier to figure out next year.

    After the debacle at MM last year, and the feeble attempt to run a regional at AB (one year on the North, one year on the South and done for good) I won't be heading back to MM and won't be going along for an experiment at BIR. I was looking forward to both RA doubles, but may just repurpose the cash and prepare for IT Fest and ARRC.

    Would you like to see it switched back to a regional?

  6. #6
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    It just doesn't make any sense to change it to a national. The runoff hopefulls can all still come and test at a regional. All that is being done is limiting entries (and income from the event) while preventing a bunch of racers from participating.

    I won't even address whether it is 'fair' for regional racers to compete with national racers. I think we all know this is a different decade than that.

    The Tro CenDiv Championship excludes any who compete at the runoffs, so it will not have any impact on the regional level series points.

    I am sure it isn't easy, but of course IT racers would like to not have half of thier chances to race at Road America taken away. Just speculating here that there is reluctance to run at Autobahn again due to cost and turnout, and there are only so many tracks that Nationals can run at, but after excluding IT cars from the MW RA event this year (AFTER it had been scheduled as a RR), it just looks like more of the same. That event is listed again, but is one week before the IT Fest, so ...

    Yeah the short answer is I would like to see it remain a regional weekend (even though I missed it in 2008 because I had to travel for work...)
    Chris Schaafsma
    Golf 2 HProd

    AMT Racing Engines - DIYAutoTune.com

  7. #7
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    2008 Kettle Sat.

    IT race group 35 cars with 16 being SMT = 19 IT cars

    Sat. total cars 130
    Have Fun ; )
    David Dewhurst
    CenDiv Milwaukee Region
    Spec Miata #14

  8. #8
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    You forgot the weather report Dave. Pouring down rain - to the tune of an ITB car taking first overall in a run group including ITR, ITS, ITA. I would have definitely been there were it not for an overseas trip interfereing, but some folks do avoid wet races.

    And of course the point again is - the only thing that changes by making it a national is that we can't participate. Leave it a regional and all of the national racers will still be there.
    Chris Schaafsma
    Golf 2 HProd

    AMT Racing Engines - DIYAutoTune.com

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    looking at it from the organizers perspective...Run it as a national and your upside potential is higher because national drivers who come to test and get experience at a regional pay a lot less then if they come to the national.

    Assumption on my part, but if you look at income you can probably expect to get fewer entries but similar income from the national due to the higher fee. and each extra national entry would equal more than 150% of each extra regional entry. Upside potential is higher.

    I'm not saying it's right, but it is understandable from that side. RA is a limited quantity item, if you have the product, why waste it selling the cheaper product?

    jim

    jim hardesty
    WOR Road Race Chair 2009
    75 ITC Civic

  10. #10
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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but...

    You do not make more from a National weekend versus a Double Regional weekend, given the same number of participants. The fixed costs remain the same (track rental, emergency crews, etc), the only variable is the sanction fee from SCCA (1 National sanction vs. 2 regional sanctions). The entry fee for a National event is less than that for a double regional.
    "Most people have the will to win, few have the will to prepare to win.” - Bobby Knight

    Bill
    Planet 6 Racing

  11. #11
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    Sorry. Twice the race sessions more than covers the higher per race entry fee for a single national. That and 4 mile track leaves plenty of room to accomodate everyone with large groups, split starts and/or whatever else is deemed appropriate.

    Right now the CenDiv regional sechedule has a few events, a big time gap and then 4 events all 2 weeks apart, with IT Fest on one of the off weeks, followed by 6 weeks of nothing an a double at BHF.

    With one of those events listed as 'tentative' because the track has not been certified for SCCA (just like it had not when it was tossed onto the 07 schedule), and one that had the last event at that track cancelled less than 24 hours before the first scheduled session.

    The bottom line is that the regional program in CenDiv is behind that of our neighbors. How is it that MidDiv finds a way to accomodate all racers at every race weekend, yet we can't?

    Looking at this, I honestly may not run any 'home events'. Possibly the last one if any testing needs to be done before ARRC. I guess the next step is to stand up and get involved to help solve the problem...
    Chris Schaafsma
    Golf 2 HProd

    AMT Racing Engines - DIYAutoTune.com

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by shwah View Post
    Sorry. Twice the race sessions more than covers the higher per race entry fee for a single national. That and 4 mile track leaves plenty of room to accomodate everyone with large groups, split starts and/or whatever else is deemed appropriate.

    Right now the CenDiv regional sechedule has a few events, a big time gap and then 4 events all 2 weeks apart, with IT Fest on one of the off weeks, followed by 6 weeks of nothing an a double at BHF.

    With one of those events listed as 'tentative' because the track has not been certified for SCCA (just like it had not when it was tossed onto the 07 schedule), and one that had the last event at that track cancelled less than 24 hours before the first scheduled session.

    The bottom line is that the regional program in CenDiv is behind that of our neighbors. How is it that MidDiv finds a way to accomodate all racers at every race weekend, yet we can't?

    Looking at this, I honestly may not run any 'home events'. Possibly the last one if any testing needs to be done before ARRC. I guess the next step is to stand up and get involved to help solve the problem...
    Yes, you do need to step up and get involved. It's not that hard but does take some time. Trust me the regions need the help. Many of us wear several hats on a race weekend in addition to driving. Not that we like to do all those extras but it, helps make the weekend go smoother for everyone. Don't know who to ask about getting involved? call or e-mail me me and I'll point you to the right person........
    Anyways,

    From the Apex Speed Site:
    Some perspective from Chicago Region:

    Unfortunately, we simply haven't had enough drivers attend our Autobahn events for us to consider returning there in 2009. We don't exist to make money, but we also can't afford to keep losing large sums there.

    I had high hopes for the 2008 event, after a decent turnout for our first national there in 2007. But, for what I assume were various reasons (economy, general downturn in national racing entries, the fact that some don't like the Autobahn track, etc.), folks just didn't come out. We tried hard, it hasn't worked, and we can't keep banging our heads against that wall.

    It's too bad, because it's a nice facility with good folks working there, a good location, and an interesting track. Drivers that like the track seem to like it a LOT. And Autobahn did a lot of work improving the facility each year, and smoothing out the surface prior to the 2008 season. I do hope we can return there again someday.

    That brings us to the Kettle event. The loss of the Autobahn national would have brought the number of nationals in CenDiv down to four--a situation that certainly wouldn't serve our national drivers well. With the big FF anniversary at the Cat National in '09, there was no way for Milwaukee to make that a double national. For various reasons, Milwauke and BVR opted not to go that route at their Blackhawk events either.

    So, the Kettle stands as the fifth national in the division. It was not an easy choice by any means, as we know that it excludes some regional drivers who love that track. We spent a lot of time discussing our responsibilities to both the regional drivers and the national drivers.

    I can guarantee you it wasn't a financial decision. Most folks felt that the Kettle would draw a huge turnout of national drivers regardless of whether it was a national or double regional event, so income was not an issue.

    As someone else noted, that big national driver turnout might not have made it the best environment for newcomer regional drivers anyway. That was a factor as well.

    So, in the end, with input from the other regions in the Division, we decided to make it a national for '09.

    I know some are disappointed by this change, and I certainly understand. I hope that you can at least understand the reasoning behind the decision, even if you don't agree with it.
    As partial compensation, we did expand the Fall Sprints at BHF to a double regional, and I am optimistic that the Brainerd and Mile events will also be good events for regional drivers.

    Thanks,
    Tom Maycock
    (just-retired RE of Chicago Region)


    Bob Clark
    Cen-Div Driver Licensing
    [email protected]

  13. #13
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    Bob - Thanks for the insider info.

    I'll call it right now - the Mile event won't happen. It will not be due to the Region not applying pressure to the track, it will be due to the track. From what I've been hearing in the local paper (I live ~2 miles from the track), they are short on money on not wanting to spend on anything, plus the local government is pushing them to be quieter (though the track has been there for, literally, over 100 years).

    I hope that the BIR event happens and that gas stays low and that we all stay gainfully employed. That said, I know I'll already be curtailing my program for next year - one big major event in March to pay for is really killing the budget!
    "Most people have the will to win, few have the will to prepare to win.” - Bobby Knight

    Bill
    Planet 6 Racing

  14. #14
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    Just remember also that the Prepared rules changed for next year too. You are now allowed to run yout IT car at Nationals in DP back to 1985 model years. I fully intend to get my ITB car out and run two classes at Nationals now....GTL and DP.
    I know it is not competitive in DP but I know a ITA car won the division in 07. Can't hurt to try.....and I'm already at the track with the other car.

  15. #15
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    I would rather spend the money to travel to the Autobahn CC for a Regional that spend money for the Milwaukee mile road course. Done the mile once & that's enough. I rank the mile right along with Gateway which I have done twice. Yes, even with the economy in the tank the Miata will be racing next year. Ya know, we retired folks don't have all the time in the world to work on race cars.

    I understand the noise for thosE around the mile & it must be a pain in the ass, oop's I mean ear. I live maybe 5 miles away & can hear cars MANY week days during the summer. The mile should eat shit & thank everyone who even thinks about using their facility. Their up front costs at the get go were $50,000.00 for a weekend to which I told one of the people from the mile that gave me the number that they were NUTS.
    Have Fun ; )
    David Dewhurst
    CenDiv Milwaukee Region
    Spec Miata #14

  16. #16
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    Those that race in CenDiv regionals should be grateful for the 1 race at RA. The past two years MCSCC has been hosed by RA with no race at all. Unless you consider early April, late Oct, early Nov. a weekday race, or Mother Day weekend as viable dates? I do have to admit that we could have had a date there in early Oct but we would have had to give up an Autobahn date and as opposed to SCCAs turnout, ours have been OK there.
    1988 ITA Scriocco 16V #80
    MCSCC member since 1988

  17. #17
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    Default Road America Kettle Race Weekend

    This is a one year deal as they are no longer going to Autobahn due to high costs. We needed another National so they converted the event for one year.

    Most of you in IT can now run DP if you wanted to.

    Mike Engelke

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    Quote Originally Posted by mengelke View Post
    This is a one year deal as they are no longer going to Autobahn due to high costs. We needed another National so they converted the event for one year.

    Most of you in IT can now run DP if you wanted to.

    Mike Engelke
    At least those of you with an 1985 or newer car. I intend to run a couple of nationals in my ITB car in ( STU ). They have changed the name from DP to STU.

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by mengelke View Post
    This is a one year deal as they are no longer going to Autobahn due to high costs. We needed another National so they converted the event for one year.

    Most of you in IT can now run DP if you wanted to.

    Mike Engelke

    Where are you hearing this from?

  20. #20
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    It's been in the GCR for a couple of years now. ITR/ITS -> BP (STO now, I believe) and ITA/B/C -> DP (STU now). If a car that is built to the prepared specs shows up and is driven well, you won't see them except maybe in the rearview. But, you still can run in the Nationals.
    "Most people have the will to win, few have the will to prepare to win.” - Bobby Knight

    Bill
    Planet 6 Racing

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