VIR -- What the Hell?

[JeffYoung]

Runs groups:

Group 2: SM, SRF, ITS?????

Group 4: ITR, ITA, IT7, ITB, ITC, SRX7, SSM, SSB, SSC

That's just messed up. We get stuck in with the SRFs, which are basically open wheel cars I can't see and that I beat down the straights, and then who will take you two wide in the essess (something ITS can't do, mostly)?

This is crazy. I've sent an e-mail to Ginny.

[seckerich]

Waste of time Jeff. I tried last time and they would not budge on race groups. We can watch the SRF--SM carnage from the cheap seats.

[Ron Earp]

Last time at VIR back in the Spring they said they would reorganize with enough warning. Problem is, Ginny said they would change weeks before the event and then at the event they wouldn't budge.

About the only way to get them to change is to not show and let them know about it. I hate running with SRFs, they hate running with ITS cars, so why can't the steward understand this?

Groupings should be:

Group 2: SM, SRF, ITB, ITC, SRX7, SSM, SSB, SSC

Group 4: ITR, ITS, ITA, IT7, maybe ITB to even them out

Jeff, put me on the list of drivers who won't race with this grouping. I'll send out emails to Steve and some others.

Ron

[Ron Earp]

My bad. A split start was requested at the last race. We were told it would happen. Then on the race event weekend that was retracted.

I suppose we can go for a split start again. Who is the Steward?

Ron

[Greg Amy]

Regional Grouping Rule #1: SM and SSM are never to be together, 'lest you lose a couple dozen potential additional entries...

[JeffYoung]

and A and SM apparently....

Steve, I hear ya. We raised this before and simply asked for a split start back in May and despite EvERY ITS driver being favor, were told no by the steward.

I know you are ok with the SRFs -- they race a lot like your car! LOL...for me, they are hard to see and do crazy stuff in the essesses that we can't do.

It's just hard for me to understand why NCR doesn't stick with the default SARRC run groups of S/A//7/R. Hacking us off from all other production based cars on non-slicks to run with SRFs and SMs is crazy.

[racer14itc]

I can understand wanting to make the prod guys the boogeyman on this one, but if the IT guys take an honest look at the schedule the race groupings really are a function of trying to get 4 separate IT races in during one race weekend: a SARRC, 2 ECRs, and a CCPS. Dropping an ECR or a CCPS race would probably result in much better IT race groupings simply because then the SRFs could have their own race group.

When we approached the NCR board, all we asked for was ONE class to be moved out of our normal race group (SRF) for ONE race during the year so we could create an incentive for folks to come out for a special year ending event. We were granted this and there has been a 400% increase in prod cars at this event in just 4 short years. Last year we had over 50 prod cars on the false grid, making this THE biggest SCCA production car race in the country of the year. We pay for the special trophies, t-shirts, party, and raffle prizes for the participants ourselves (the prod racers). The net to the region was an increase of several thousand $$$ in entry fees for no investment on their part.

Thanks for your understanding and best of racing luck to everyone that weekend!

Mark Coffin
lesser 1/2 of the Production Car Festival committee (my wife is the better 1/2!)

[JeffYoung]

Mark, I enjoy seeing the Prod cars come out and think the Prod Fest is a good thing. But you have to remember this is a regional weekend, and in my (humble) opinion regional classes should be the focus. Lopping off one IT class to run with SRF and SM to make this work.....well, I respect the decision of NCR leadership (they are all good folks) but it gives me serious pause about running the race with that group. I'm sure you understand the reasons why.

That said, I've asked for a split start for ITS cars and if we get it, I'll be fine with the situation. The problem is when this happened in May, we were told to wait to ask for teh split start on race day, and every ITS driver present did so. We were then told we had waited too long.

I have no idea why there are two ECRs and a Cup race this weekend. I agree it is a lot of racing on a two day weekend. I also don't think the appropriate solution is to take one IT group -- admittedly mine -- and stick them in with SRFs and SMs. But so it goes.

[Ron Earp]

Jeff, who is the steward for the meet? I'll write a letter/email to that person informing them of the situation last May and how we (IT drivers) want to avoid that again. I'm sure the SRF folks don't want this mess either. I was around a couple racing for position in May and I'm sure I screwed them up - but I had little choice, I had a ITS car racing me for position as well and couldn't very well give up in the middle of it.

[cfullgraf]

At a nominal 1700 pounds, I'd hardly call an SRF and "open wheel car". When Sports Renault started in the 80s, we in CSR disliked running with them because they took odd lines and were built like tanks.

In any case, at the SIC, they split started the SRFs and the small IT cars. It worked pretty well. By the time I got lapped the SRFs were pretty strung out.

P.S. If you can't see an SRF coming, you aren't looking in your mirrors or watching the flags enough.

[JeffYoung]

I would respectfully disagree. They are 1000 lbs lighter than most ITS cars, and under that body work they are essentially an open wheel car.

As far as "seeing them coming" -- in an S car you are running similar times to most of them, they just make speed different than you. They don't pass you and then move on, way on, as if you were in a C car doing 100 mph tops. They pass in places we don't, take lines we don't, and are impossible to see when they are on your quarter panel.

[racer14itc]

Mark, I enjoy seeing the Prod cars come out and think the Prod Fest is a good thing. But you have to remember this is a regional weekend, and in my (humble) opinion regional classes should be the focus. Lopping off one IT class to run with SRF and SM to make this work.....well, I respect the decision of NCR leadership (they are all good folks) but it gives me serious pause about running the race with that group. I'm sure you understand the reasons why.

That said, I've asked for a split start for ITS cars and if we get it, I'll be fine with the situation. The problem is when this happened in May, we were told to wait to ask for teh split start on race day, and every ITS driver present did so. We were then told we had waited too long.

I have no idea why there are two ECRs and a Cup race this weekend. I agree it is a lot of racing on a two day weekend. I also don't think the appropriate solution is to take one IT group -- admittedly mine -- and stick them in with SRFs and SMs. But so it goes.

Hi Jeff,

Please let me know if I can help at all with getting a split start. I am friends with some of the NCR "management" and have a good relationship with most stewards, so with whatever little influence I have I'll be happy to help.

Stop by and say hi during the weekend, we'll be the ones with about a hundred people around our trailer on Sat. night (Prod Party).

Mark

#14 FP VW Scirocco

[seckerich]

Mark, I enjoy seeing the Prod cars come out and think the Prod Fest is a good thing. But you have to remember this is a regional weekend, and in my (humble) opinion regional classes should be the focus. Lopping off one IT class to run with SRF and SM to make this work.....well, I respect the decision of NCR leadership (they are all good folks) but it gives me serious pause about running the race with that group. I'm sure you understand the reasons why.

That said, I've asked for a split start for ITS cars and if we get it, I'll be fine with the situation. The problem is when this happened in May, we were told to wait to ask for teh split start on race day, and every ITS driver present did so. We were then told we had waited too long.

I have no idea why there are two ECRs and a Cup race this weekend. I agree it is a lot of racing on a two day weekend. I also don't think the appropriate solution is to take one IT group -- admittedly mine -- and stick them in with SRFs and SMs. But so it goes.

Production cars are regional as well Jeff. I can also tell you after chairing a few races this year that you should be glad those extra races are added to the weekend. Otherwise you would be paying quite as bit more for your share of track time. Work with the system and get the stewards to allow a split start. VIR is a big enough track we should all string out enough to have good racing.

[JeffYoung]

I agree 100% -- split start is the way to go and solves "my" problem. The issue is making sure it happens since last time was a cluster.

Can I put you down as one of the ITS guys who wants a split start?

Thanks Steve.

Jeff

[Knestis]

I don't have a dog in this fight but I've come to believe that - contrary to what we often do - it's better to mix classes that have substantially different lap times, rather than similar ones, if they are fundamentally different kinds of cars.

Jeff's point about the SRF's having similar lap times but getting there differently is a good example of why putting the spec racers with SLOWER IT cars might be better than putting them with FASTER ones. The SIC answer went as smoothly as any of those mis-matched groups I've ever seen. Of course, the SRF's are a pretty homogenous group, in terms of lap times. The ITS cars at the Festival were a very different thing, for example.

K

[Hotshoe]

I agree 100% -- split start is the way to go and solves "my" problem. The issue is making sure it happens since last time was a cluster.

Jeff,

... Since the schedule came out so late, I had already planned on not running my ITR car because of last May. I just have a hard time running with those guys. Not that they are dangerous or anything, but, their cornering speeds are higher than mine, and they are slower in the straights. Makes it hard to get away, and stay away. Sort of like running with the SM crowd in an ITA car.

... I know that my class is not in that group but, I can speak from experience because of last May. And I am not very optimistic about a split start because of the results we got last time.

.... But maybe they will do it this time...Hope So

.... Rickey T.