VIR -- What the Hell?

[racer14itc]

I can understand wanting to make the prod guys the boogeyman on this one, but if the IT guys take an honest look at the schedule the race groupings really are a function of trying to get 4 separate IT races in during one race weekend: a SARRC, 2 ECRs, and a CCPS. Dropping an ECR or a CCPS race would probably result in much better IT race groupings simply because then the SRFs could have their own race group.

When we approached the NCR board, all we asked for was ONE class to be moved out of our normal race group (SRF) for ONE race during the year so we could create an incentive for folks to come out for a special year ending event. We were granted this and there has been a 400% increase in prod cars at this event in just 4 short years. Last year we had over 50 prod cars on the false grid, making this THE biggest SCCA production car race in the country of the year. We pay for the special trophies, t-shirts, party, and raffle prizes for the participants ourselves (the prod racers). The net to the region was an increase of several thousand $$$ in entry fees for no investment on their part.

Thanks for your understanding and best of racing luck to everyone that weekend!

Mark Coffin
lesser 1/2 of the Production Car Festival committee (my wife is the better 1/2!)

[JeffYoung]

Mark, I enjoy seeing the Prod cars come out and think the Prod Fest is a good thing. But you have to remember this is a regional weekend, and in my (humble) opinion regional classes should be the focus. Lopping off one IT class to run with SRF and SM to make this work.....well, I respect the decision of NCR leadership (they are all good folks) but it gives me serious pause about running the race with that group. I'm sure you understand the reasons why.

That said, I've asked for a split start for ITS cars and if we get it, I'll be fine with the situation. The problem is when this happened in May, we were told to wait to ask for teh split start on race day, and every ITS driver present did so. We were then told we had waited too long.

I have no idea why there are two ECRs and a Cup race this weekend. I agree it is a lot of racing on a two day weekend. I also don't think the appropriate solution is to take one IT group -- admittedly mine -- and stick them in with SRFs and SMs. But so it goes.

[Ron Earp]

Jeff, who is the steward for the meet? I'll write a letter/email to that person informing them of the situation last May and how we (IT drivers) want to avoid that again. I'm sure the SRF folks don't want this mess either. I was around a couple racing for position in May and I'm sure I screwed them up - but I had little choice, I had a ITS car racing me for position as well and couldn't very well give up in the middle of it.

[cfullgraf]

At a nominal 1700 pounds, I'd hardly call an SRF and "open wheel car". When Sports Renault started in the 80s, we in CSR disliked running with them because they took odd lines and were built like tanks.

In any case, at the SIC, they split started the SRFs and the small IT cars. It worked pretty well. By the time I got lapped the SRFs were pretty strung out.

P.S. If you can't see an SRF coming, you aren't looking in your mirrors or watching the flags enough.

[JeffYoung]

I would respectfully disagree. They are 1000 lbs lighter than most ITS cars, and under that body work they are essentially an open wheel car.

As far as "seeing them coming" -- in an S car you are running similar times to most of them, they just make speed different than you. They don't pass you and then move on, way on, as if you were in a C car doing 100 mph tops. They pass in places we don't, take lines we don't, and are impossible to see when they are on your quarter panel.

[racer14itc]

Mark, I enjoy seeing the Prod cars come out and think the Prod Fest is a good thing. But you have to remember this is a regional weekend, and in my (humble) opinion regional classes should be the focus. Lopping off one IT class to run with SRF and SM to make this work.....well, I respect the decision of NCR leadership (they are all good folks) but it gives me serious pause about running the race with that group. I'm sure you understand the reasons why.

That said, I've asked for a split start for ITS cars and if we get it, I'll be fine with the situation. The problem is when this happened in May, we were told to wait to ask for teh split start on race day, and every ITS driver present did so. We were then told we had waited too long.

I have no idea why there are two ECRs and a Cup race this weekend. I agree it is a lot of racing on a two day weekend. I also don't think the appropriate solution is to take one IT group -- admittedly mine -- and stick them in with SRFs and SMs. But so it goes.

Hi Jeff,

Please let me know if I can help at all with getting a split start. I am friends with some of the NCR "management" and have a good relationship with most stewards, so with whatever little influence I have I'll be happy to help.

Stop by and say hi during the weekend, we'll be the ones with about a hundred people around our trailer on Sat. night (Prod Party).

Mark

#14 FP VW Scirocco

[seckerich]

Mark, I enjoy seeing the Prod cars come out and think the Prod Fest is a good thing. But you have to remember this is a regional weekend, and in my (humble) opinion regional classes should be the focus. Lopping off one IT class to run with SRF and SM to make this work.....well, I respect the decision of NCR leadership (they are all good folks) but it gives me serious pause about running the race with that group. I'm sure you understand the reasons why.

That said, I've asked for a split start for ITS cars and if we get it, I'll be fine with the situation. The problem is when this happened in May, we were told to wait to ask for teh split start on race day, and every ITS driver present did so. We were then told we had waited too long.

I have no idea why there are two ECRs and a Cup race this weekend. I agree it is a lot of racing on a two day weekend. I also don't think the appropriate solution is to take one IT group -- admittedly mine -- and stick them in with SRFs and SMs. But so it goes.

Production cars are regional as well Jeff. I can also tell you after chairing a few races this year that you should be glad those extra races are added to the weekend. Otherwise you would be paying quite as bit more for your share of track time. Work with the system and get the stewards to allow a split start. VIR is a big enough track we should all string out enough to have good racing.

[JeffYoung]

I agree 100% -- split start is the way to go and solves "my" problem. The issue is making sure it happens since last time was a cluster.

Can I put you down as one of the ITS guys who wants a split start?

Thanks Steve.

Jeff

[Knestis]

I don't have a dog in this fight but I've come to believe that - contrary to what we often do - it's better to mix classes that have substantially different lap times, rather than similar ones, if they are fundamentally different kinds of cars.

Jeff's point about the SRF's having similar lap times but getting there differently is a good example of why putting the spec racers with SLOWER IT cars might be better than putting them with FASTER ones. The SIC answer went as smoothly as any of those mis-matched groups I've ever seen. Of course, the SRF's are a pretty homogenous group, in terms of lap times. The ITS cars at the Festival were a very different thing, for example.

K

[Mike Spencer]

I don't have a dog in this fight but I've come to believe that - contrary to what we often do - it's better to mix classes that have substantially different lap times, rather than similar ones, if they are fundamentally different kinds of cars.

Jeff's point about the SRF's having similar lap times but getting there differently is a good example of why putting the spec racers with SLOWER IT cars might be better than putting them with FASTER ones. The SIC answer went as smoothly as any of those mis-matched groups I've ever seen. Of course, the SRF's are a pretty homogenous group, in terms of lap times. The ITS cars at the Festival were a very different thing, for example.

K

Kirk,

You make a very good point! Although, in my opinion there are at actually three different types of potential "problems" when I look at who I'm running with.

1) Similar times, but in different places -- When one is faster in the straights and the other in the corners, they are constantly in each others way.

2) Significantly different times -- Cars may be different in the corners, but I believe the *big* differences come down to top speed. This results in very high closing rates at the end of long straights, like T1 and T14 at VIR.

3) Different driving "styles" -- This seems to be the one that gets people riled up the most. I'm not going to point fingers or say it needs to change. We are what we are for very good reasons. There are some classes with very high subscription numbers that have spec cars. Most are very close in performance. With relatively fewer opportunities to pass and a ton of cars to try to get by or stay ahead of, you learn to take advantage of the chances you get. Other classes can afford to be more patient and may think twice before sticking their nose in somewhere.

In a perfect world, I wouldn't mix any of these groups during a weekend. Unfortunately, our world is imperfect and there aren't enough hours of daylight to do that.

The major growth in Regional racing over the last 10 years seems to have been in IT and SM. Production numbers are dwindling, but many/most of these guys and gals have been at it for a long time and have helped make our club what it is. I think it's wonderful that NC Region and VIR do this for them once every year. If that places one of the "problem" classes in with me I can deal with it. (And it doesn't in this case, but I do face this issue in ECRs and CCPS. I don't necessarily look forward to it, but I do run those races)

There are Prod drivers coming from as far away as California, and there are going to be a lot of them. Let them have their party. They earned it!

[JeffYoung]

Mark, thanks for the note. I've been in touch with Sara, Ginny and Glenn and they are working with us (as they always do, good folk) on the split start.

I'll stop by and have a beer with you crazy slick shod prod guys Saturday night....

[Hotshoe]

I agree 100% -- split start is the way to go and solves "my" problem. The issue is making sure it happens since last time was a cluster.

Jeff,

... Since the schedule came out so late, I had already planned on not running my ITR car because of last May. I just have a hard time running with those guys. Not that they are dangerous or anything, but, their cornering speeds are higher than mine, and they are slower in the straights. Makes it hard to get away, and stay away. Sort of like running with the SM crowd in an ITA car.

... I know that my class is not in that group but, I can speak from experience because of last May. And I am not very optimistic about a split start because of the results we got last time.

.... But maybe they will do it this time...Hope So

.... Rickey T.