Neat and clean appearance?

[924Guy]

Direct reply back to Jared... bondo isn't the only way to repair your car; it's just the easiest/cheapest. If you don't like using it, then perhaps you should replace the panels in question. It's your choice; do you want to patch up or replace the panels that are damaged? There's no provision in the rulebook for not adequately repairing damage.

As for paint... you seem again to be taking very much a black-or-white, all or nothing view of the matter. Do you really mean to tell me that the paint all has to match perfectly? Close is good. Or even a better idea, change your paint scheme on the fly. Most racecars have multi-color paint. And metallic paint is a really poor choice for a racecar, for exactly this reason - too hard to touch up.

Does my car look ugly??



As you can see, not perfect. But looks fine, and never had tech complain about appearance. That's a $300 MAACO paint job, customized with Krylon and Rustoleum. Easy to touch up between races as needed. And I race mostly at Waterford, where a little incidental contact should be expected, like it or not. I'm not fond of doing bodywork either, so I make it as easy on myself as possible.

(and, FWIW, I have since replaced that LF fender with a fresh one, since it was not really salvageable long-term - that was the best I could do without too much bondoing at the time).

[spnkzss]

See, this is a bit different than your original post.

As for body work, I don't LIKE doing a lot of things to my car...rear bearings, trans work, etc, but you have to do those things to race..it's all part of the game.

Bondo? Hey, if you don't like it, oh well, your call. But matching paint??? Now you have me. On one hand you really don't care about the car being all wonky with rust coming through, but on the other you are saying it's too difficult to match the paint to your satisfaction?

Ummm....

Just take the option to fix it over the winter, and move on. Ask your local paint guy for some advise and take a bodywork plunge, and the pride in your work will show on the car and in your driving. Or have a local shop do it during slow times, perhaps for partial trade for on car advertisement.

Remember, you're the head mechanic, driver, accountant, tow rig operator, bodywork guy, chassis engineer and bottlewasher of your race "team". And sometimes cleaning bottles sucks. Oh well, it's part of the game.

Jake couldn't have said it any better

[lateapex911]

Jake couldn't have said it any better

he rarely does.............

[mengelke]

As the Executive Steward in Cen-Div the buck stops at my doorstep. Tech no longers has the power to write up notes in the log book on there own. They must have it approved by the Chief steward. I saw the car in passing but, did not spend anytime looking at it in great detail. While I agree that fix by next event near the end of the season was perhaps a little hard. Jared told me his next SCCA event would most likely be the same race next year. Had he said earlier I would have contacted the Chief Steward of his next event and had the notation changed.

All Exec's in the country are going to enforce only the Chief Steward anotations in log books.

I told Jared that I was meeting with the Competition Director of Medwestern Council at a SCCA event in October and would talk with Jared after that event.

Mike Engelke
Cen-Div Exec Steward

[mc-integra111]

I hope no one is mistaking my disappointment with the situation for disappointment with the people. Everyone at SCCA including the tech people, the chief steward, and the executive have been very nice, helpful, and respectful.

I did not mean for this to escalate anything. I just wanted to hear people's opinions and I think this is a good way to do it. Obviously the majority of racers believe this is too much damage, and this has affected my future decisions about the car.

Sorry Kevin, schedule is finalized with Council events for the rest of the year since I am in the ITA points lead. Maybe next year. Or maybe next year you can come try to set an RA track record with Council Good luck at Mid-Ohio. I'll be down at the ARRC cheering for you.

Thanks for the compliments David, I didn't miss them. I'm sorry to say that I don't believe I have seen you or your car (although I do have a bad memory).

[philstireservice]

Late to the dance...but it looks fine. Probably better than most ........

Like what was said by most ...fix it over the winter. Then if someone hits you next year.....grab him by the neck and say.." Now you fix it for me"....

[rsportvolvo]

Fixing your car will cost money, but what about the money you could save by fixing your car?

I would fix the car and do a good job at it. Then use my "so fresh and so clean" car to get advertising money or product. Many hate NASCAR, but they truly understand the mobile billboard principle.

If you use your car as a mobile billboard you HAVE to keep the car in tip-top shape. No spokeman is better than a poor spokesman. It worked for a friend's Production race car as he recieved FREE tires as required from Goodyear (he was a front runner and his attention detail in his car's appearance was also shown in the cars build quality and performance). Compare your tire budget with fixing the car. My guess is that free tires (or oil, or brake pads, etc.) is worth "hammer time," bondo, a paint job and some wax.

Also, having worked in SPEED World-Challenge and Rolex A LOT of crew time is spent keeping the car, paddock, and pit areas "neat and tidy." Professional cleaners who perform some racing services.

It's embarassing for the sport to see rat traps running around. It isn't hard to have a nice looking race car.

Were you drawn to racing by the rat traps or the nice looking cars?

[loudes13]

Prepping a race car is hard enough. You made an honest attempt to fix it. If SCCA doesn't want your money...

[slopok]

Lets have a bunch of shit boxes running around. If you can't afford to fix body damage you should not be in this sport period.

[slopok]

Direct reply back to Jared... bondo isn't the only way to repair your car; it's just the easiest/cheapest. If you don't like using it, then perhaps you should replace the panels in question. It's your choice; do you want to patch up or replace the panels that are damaged? There's no provision in the rulebook for not adequately repairing damage.

As for paint... you seem again to be taking very much a black-or-white, all or nothing view of the matter. Do you really mean to tell me that the paint all has to match perfectly? Close is good. Or even a better idea, change your paint scheme on the fly. Most racecars have multi-color paint. And metallic paint is a really poor choice for a racecar, for exactly this reason - too hard to touch up.

Does my car look ugly??



As you can see, not perfect. But looks fine, and never had tech complain about appearance. That's a $300 MAACO paint job, customized with Krylon and Rustoleum. Easy to touch up between races as needed. And I race mostly at Waterford, where a little incidental contact should be expected, like it or not. I'm not fond of doing bodywork either, so I make it as easy on myself as possible.

(and, FWIW, I have since replaced that LF fender with a fresh one, since it was not really salvageable long-term - that was the best I could do without too much bondoing at the time).

Yes the car looks unsightly (ugly)for a Porsche

[lateapex911]

I love it when a guy flings poo but is too chicken to sign his name.....

[slopok]

Why ask the question if you can't take the answer. The car looks bad in a poor photo what's it look like in person ? A zillion dents in the left front fender. A disgrace to the name badge. If you can't afford to maintain the looks (cheap to do) what is the mechanical stuff like?

What does a name have to do with honesty ?

Perhaps I'll make the same statement to you in person next week.

[Mike Guenther]

I love our club and I am thankful to see many of us who share the desire for the club to show a little class by trying to keep our hot rods looking decent, clean and not too banged up. I also like to bring a good looking car to the track, but unfortunately it is not always possible to keep up with work, home and auto repairs in time for the next race. I recall not too many years ago that one of my fellows accused me of keeping the racer tape companies in production.

Looking at some old pictures of cars past, I see that it was true. I am thankful for the stewards that had patience to let me have some time between repairs. I used to think that new paint just gave some guys something to aim for so I didn't always replace fenders promptly when the repairs weren't looking professional or even good.

Thanks and Kudos go out to Mike Engelke, Cen-Div Exec Steward, for speaking up for moderation. Jared's car wasn't so bad that it shouldn't be allowed to continue entering events. At the same time, the tech inspector reminded him that we do try to uphold some level of standards on appearance and he should plan on making some cosmetic repairs in addition to the rough repairs already attempted. Jared's car didn't look so bad and the answers to his question here helped him define the consensus of opinions of his fellow club members as to what was considered acceptable and desirable in appearance in our club..

I am all in favor of Slopok's idea when he suggested,

Lets have a bunch of shit boxes running around. If you can't afford to fix body damage you should not be in this sport period.

That's a great idea. We could make a separate class for clunkers. And we could give them their own time to run too, on Saturday nights. Oh yea and on their own track. We'll call it roundy-round racing, where rubbin' is racin'. Say shit boxes three times and see if it doesn't make you smile.

[Spinnetti]

I think there's a bigger question than the dents on the car.... As was posted earlier, we aren't running a junker class, and having to be responsible for your bodywork will (hopefully) reduce the amount of contact between cars knowing you have to fix it. Right now, I've got my car stripped to the bare chassis, and I'm fixing/repainting the whole thing to near showroom (it has only ever had one dent). Who wants to run with a bunch of Junkers anyway? Oddly enough, I've just run two 24hrs of Lemons races (not in the same car!), and not only was it a ton more fun than any SCCA race I've ever done, but there was less contact. At lemons, they black flag anybody who touches anything. Keeps things clean, and I wish they would do that in SCCA... would reduce the amount of crashing and banging, which I for one, want no part of.

[924Guy]

Yes the car looks unsightly (ugly)for a Porsche

LOL... looks better than yours! Faster, too...

[gran racing]

Spinnetti, I'm not trying to pick on you but if you re-read your post, it's interesting. In one sense you're saying that having to "be responsible for bodywork will (hopefully) reduce the amount of contact between cars knowing you have to fix it." Then you say that when racing with the Lemons series there was less contact but essentially pointed out that those cars are less than showroom looking. Sure sounds like it's about how perfect the bodywork is but more a matter of the sanctioning body governing body contact, no?

I don't condone intentional rubbing at this level but also accept that especially towards the front, contact will happen. We are racing sedans and love the fact that we can race so hard while knowing that if something does happen by accident, the risks are far less than if done open wheel racing. I'll also be the first to admit that I don't have the financial resources nor the time to make my car's appearance as pretty as some here might want. Instead of telling people like us to get out of racing, maybe you should find a new home if it bothers you that much.

Mike, maybe we should have clunkers race weekends? Might not be so bad. The guys I know who do the roundy round stuff pay $15 entry fees, winners get paid some decent bucks, annual fees to participate are extemely low (less than $50), and people other than family and friends of racers actually show up to watch the racing. Yeah, if they raced on road courses I'd be there.

[itracer]

Mike, maybe we should have clunkers race weekends? Might not be so bad. The guys I know who do the roundy round stuff pay $15 entry fees, winners get paid some decent bucks, annual fees to participate are extemely low (less than $50), and people other than family and friends of racers actually show up to watch the racing. Yeah, if they raced on road courses I'd be there.

When Life Hands You Lemons, Race Them

24 hours of LeMons

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/28/au...=1&oref=slogin

Anyone?

[Spinnetti]

Spinnetti, I'm not trying to pick on you but if you re-read your post, it's interesting. In one sense you're saying that having to "be responsible for bodywork will (hopefully) reduce the amount of contact between cars knowing you have to fix it." Then you say that when racing with the Lemons series there was less contact but essentially pointed out that those cars are less than showroom looking. Sure sounds like it's about how perfect the bodywork is but more a matter of the sanctioning body governing body contact, no?

I don't condone intentional rubbing at this level but also accept that especially towards the front, contact will happen. We are racing sedans and love the fact that we can race so hard while knowing that if something does happen by accident, the risks are far less than if done open wheel racing. I'll also be the first to admit that I don't have the financial resources nor the time to make my car's appearance as pretty as some here might want. Instead of telling people like us to get out of racing, maybe you should find a new home if it bothers you that much.

Mike, maybe we should have clunkers race weekends? Might not be so bad. The guys I know who do the roundy round stuff pay $15 entry fees, winners get paid some decent bucks, annual fees to participate are extemely low (less than $50), and people other than family and friends of racers actually show up to watch the racing. Yeah, if they raced on road courses I'd be there.

Maybe I mixed my messages here. I take pride in my car, and love road racing. I've been doing it for 15 years, and was at the pointy end of the field for almost all of that. At that end, I had minimal contact, but it got worse further back in the field.

key points are these:

1. This ain't NASCAR, and I don't have the resources or time to constantly fix my car, and I don't want to road race a junk heap, or drive with people who think they are in a crash up derby (I did get totalled once). The Lemons rule is a way to keep things clean, so I mentioned in that context.

2. Turns out Lemons is FUN! There are almost no rules, its very light hearted, and you can run what you brung. In that context, driving a junker is just fine, and its still real racing (much to my surprise). SCCA has lots to learn about fun.

3. To your point about the roundy round guys, I agree completely. How is it that their safety rules aren't so asinine, the racing is frequent and cheap, AND they pay out to the top places? How did the SCCA get so messed up?

4. Being in the SCCA a long time, the "if you don't like it F^^% off" seems to be the common approach... Ok, I did, and haven't raced for several years in SCCA, but I still keep in touch because I'm trying to decide if I want to come back or not. I love road racing, but also want to have fun - sounds like you'd rather I didn't since I want to keep a straight car (I've seen the videos of how you guys try to demolish each other out there).

Hmm... mebbe I'll stick with Lemons where I'm having more fun and just use my race car for track days. We raced two toyotas, a FX16 and a Celica, and finished 9th and 20 somthing despite one of our guys totaling the Celica, which set the 2nd fastest lap of the race AFTER wrecking it. BTW, Toledo was my first race on a banked oval (under the lights all night no less), and it was way more fun than I thought it would be (they made it into a pseudo road course). I was practically dizzy after 700 laps though!

[gran racing]

sounds like you'd rather I didn't since I want to keep a straight car

Not true. I'd much prefer to have a pretty car like it was when I finished building it. At the same point I recognize and accept that shit happens and I might not be able to get it back to that condition due to various constraints. Vaughn's car is a great example. It looks nice, but has some battle wounds. So what. We're CLUB racing and most of us are not trying to solicit sponsors. Having a car looking super pretty doesn't seem to do much to deter things in many pro racing venues. Gesh, BTCC is a prime example. LOL

[lateapex911]

Gesh, BTCC is a prime example. LOL

I LOVE BTTC! Is it on anywhere anymore?? I miss it!