Neat and clean appearance?

[mc-integra111]

Well, I finally did my first SCCA event at Road America the weekend of Sept 13th. Overall I had fun, but had one bad experience. I want to post hear to get some opinions from fellow IT racers.

I had to get my car teched, which went great. Three gentlemen were looking it over and didn't give any indication that anything was even close to causing a problem. At the very end, one gentleman decided that they needed to write up my driver’s side body damage. I asked them what that meant, and that's when they informed me that it means I would have to fix the damage before I could race another SCCA event. I told them that the damage that is left is the result of fixing the much worse body damage that occurred from hitting a guardrail earlier in the year. I fixed the damage to my liking and have no intention of fixing it further. I believe that I maintain a stock looking body line (to be legal per body repair rules) while presenting a car suitable for competition (it ain't perfect, but it hit a wall). I appealed to the Chief Steward after the event and even to another regional SCCA official later in the week to remove the notation so that I can race SCCA again. Currently, I am still waiting for a response. I would like to hear opinions from fellow IT racers as to whether they think the damage is bad enough to be written up or that SCCA is being picky and this car should be allowed to race. Here are pictures of the car before and after my fix (after the fix is actually as raced at RA). Thanks.

[Greg Amy]

Unfortunately, Jared, that is a VERY subjective call. "Neat and clean" is as about nebulous a rule as you can get, and it's up to the tech inspector's discretion. Unfortunately, all tech inspectors are different.

Hell, if you want to see an extreme example, check out Joe DiMinno's car from 2006-2007; that thing was such a pig even *HE* replaced the whole car over last winter (then proceeded to wreck it again...sigh...)

You're doing the right thing by using the protest/appeals process. From this point forward you'll just need to see if someone higher-up can over ride the local guy. Otherwise you're probably screwed... - GA

[ddewhurst]

***I fixed the damage to my liking and have no intention of fixing it further.***

Jared, if we use this ^ as a base line for repairing cars I can only imagine what a race group of cars will look like.

***I believe that I maintain a stock looking body line (to be legal per body repair rules) while presenting a car suitable for competition (it ain't perfect, but it hit a wall).***

Rule 9.1.3.D.8.h. Body repair workshall be preformed using every reasonable effort to maintain stock body contours, lips, ect.

Reading between the lines I understand where the tech inspector is coming from.

If I am not mistaken one of your coharts from Council who races a Spec Miata has been given the same notation with reference to his body work.

From my observations of you on track, you get-er done. It would be a shame if you decide to not fix your body work because that might leave you out of racing SCCA where there is some competition for you.

[Drew Aldred]

Hell, unless they took pictures that are now stapled in your logbook, take it to the next event and say "Look, I fixed it".:cool:

[x-ring]

Well, from a tech point of view, I would probably do a write up in your book too, but I probably wouldn't insist that it was 'fix by next event'. I'd probably write it us as 'fix within 30 days'.

It also doesn't necessarily have to go to a body shop. I can't really asess the damage from here, but it looks like you could probably make it good enough in your garage. How do your neighbors feel about painting a car fender or two in your driveway? Mine neighbors have never said a thing....

[joeg]

Fix the car.

[Xian]

I'm familiar with the rule in question and, although the tech inspector can enforce it as he did, it seems a bit overzealous. It appears to me that you made reasonable grassroots, budget type repairs to the car. I'd continue pursuing the appeals process and see if you can get it overturned. If not, I'd give some additional garage repair a try

[spnkzss]

I think that is something you could get away with for a whole racing year if ti happened AFTER you annual, but that would be something I would fix over the winter.

[924Guy]

Yeah, that'd be what I'd classify as a stellar job for at-the-track work... but with a month or more off between races... yeah, you should be able to do better than that. I don't see any signs of bondo being used... so seems to me like you're leaving something on the table. Not to say you have to use bondo, but you can get it closer than that without using a bodyshop.

[tom_sprecher]

When Butch was having the annual done on his car earlier this year, as Rodger Sund would come to each line on the check list he would read it out loud. "Neat and clean?" Rodger said, with a disappointing look over his glasses at Butch. It was obvious that, while there was no damage to the car, there was no shine either.

I broke the silence with "At least he has the 'and' part".

[1stGenBoy]

I passed your tow rig on the way home from the track and I even commented to my son that it looked like he had a rough weekend at the track. Based on what I saw when we passed you I, would say the tech inspector was correct in writing it up.

Bob Clark
#76 Cen-Div GTL
#76 Cen-Div ITB

[77ITA]

I think it looks fine... probably on the nicer end of most of the IT cars in the Midwest circuit. I raced all of '07 in an ITA car that looked the same or worse.

We're not all made of money and often times it doesn't make sense to do a bunch of body work on a $3k car between races when we know it's going to happen again. I can also assure you that the rule is written to keep a professional image for our sport, not to ensure that we all have show cars. As long as your car doesn't look like a demo-derby car from 50 feet away, you should be fine. I'd personally like the opportunity to tell your tech inspector where he can shove his GCR.

[planet6racing]

I think it looks fine... probably on the nicer end of most of the IT cars in the Midwest circuit. I raced all of '07 in an ITA car that looked the same or worse.

We're not all made of money and often times it doesn't make sense to do a bunch of body work on a $3k car between races when we know it's going to happen again. I can also assure you that the rule is written to keep a professional image for our sport, not to ensure that we all have show cars. As long as your car doesn't look like a demo-derby car from 50 feet away, you should be fine. I'd personally like the opportunity to tell your tech inspector where he can shove his GCR.

And I'm sure they'd be perfectly happy to have your help in Tech. The line on Friday was 50 cars deep and took 3 hours for some to get through. Others were sent away and told to come back on Saturday.

[pfcs]

"I think it looks fine... probably on the nicer end of most of the IT cars in the Midwest circuit. I raced all of '07 in an ITA car that looked the same or worse.

We're not all made of money and often times it doesn't make sense to do a bunch of body work on a $3k car between races when we know it's going to happen again. I can also assure you that the rule is written to keep a professional image for our sport, not to ensure that we all have show cars. As long as your car doesn't look like a demo-derby car from 50 feet away, you should be fine. I'd personally like the opportunity to tell your tech inspector where he can shove his GCR. "

I agree strongly and had the same experience at the same track. When I ended up in impound in 4th after the 94 ARRC the tech guys gave me the third degree about the neat and clean rule, telling me that if I returned in the same condition, I wouldn't be allowed to race. The car was raced all over the NE without any mention of neat/clean until then as well as later (95) phil

[Spinnetti]

I think there's a bigger question than the dents on the car.... As was posted earlier, we aren't running a junker class, and having to be responsible for your bodywork will (hopefully) reduce the amount of contact between cars knowing you have to fix it. Right now, I've got my car stripped to the bare chassis, and I'm fixing/repainting the whole thing to near showroom (it has only ever had one dent). Who wants to run with a bunch of Junkers anyway? Oddly enough, I've just run two 24hrs of Lemons races (not in the same car!), and not only was it a ton more fun than any SCCA race I've ever done, but there was less contact. At lemons, they black flag anybody who touches anything. Keeps things clean, and I wish they would do that in SCCA... would reduce the amount of crashing and banging, which I for one, want no part of.

[dickita15]

I can also assure you that the rule is written to keep a professional image for our sport, not to ensure that we all have show cars. As long as your car doesn't look like a demo-derby car from 50 feet away, you should be fine.

I really don’t believe that is the whole reason. There is a school of thought that drivers who have body damage already are likely to try less to avoid future contact. I know in one SCCA division the stewards were trying to crack down on SM metal to metals and one tool they used was to write up all damage after every race. I am told it worked.

[JLawton]

two years ago ITA was impounded after a race and everyone written up who had body damage. I believe that it needed to be done by the next annual.