Watkins Glen ITS Video - spectator view

[rsx858]

I know wilson did not hit the miata the order of cars was Harding,Amy, Rooke, Wright, the question at hand here is did Rooke have any damage. I could not tell if he was running at the end of the race from Ben's video. All and all i agree with Wilson approach He is a 3 time national champ and has do things in race car that most dream off. He is a true class action.

Jessie Goyette

My Perspective: I was right in Amy's draft coming off of T1 and up to the accident. IMO Amy was unable to slam the brakes because he knew i was right behind and he would have likely got rear ended. I would have attempted the same move.

My car sustained no damage. Though it was an extremely close call after Amy took the big hit, I missed him by a hair.

I agree the miata had no reason to take that apex and he should have had more situational awareness. Though the rules tend to point the finger at the overtaking driver in these situations, I would clarify this as a common racing incident that unfortunatly happened at a very high speed and walled in part of the race course.

[ulfelder]

I know I'm late to the party on this, but what a %$#! scary hit! What occurs to me as I watch it is how fast we're going at the end of the esses, and that "floaty" feeling you often get there. And that's when you're by yourself, no traffic in sight! Glad everybody's more or less OK.

Greg, old chum, you've had more than your share of Miata-lapping hardship this year.

Steve

[lateapex911]

When the Miata got turned to drivers right, Greg moved to the left and got control of the car. Within this 1 to 2 second period the Miata which is still broadside to the track comes back to hit the Integra in the side. This allows Matt to get by. After Matts exit the Miata moves to drivers right, still broadside coming across the track. This is where I decide to go drivers right to avoid hitting the Miata.

That makes the most sense, Wilson...but I saw you go for your ride on the grass in the video, and i saw a disabled car parked there, and I saw the aftermath (how bad's the car?), but I've missed how your deal went down? What happened to you?

[erlrich]

Do you use your headlights in situations like that? I find it works great. Not only do the lapped traffic see you earlier, but I find that the blue flags seem snappier too.

I just wanted to add that I think this should almost be required of the fastest class running in a multi-class race group. This is particularly helpful to those drivers, like me, who typically don't get lapped in a sprint race, and so may not be expecting that car coming up behind them to be a faster class coming through. And yes, I know we all need to be watching our mirrors, but IMO there is a considerable difference in the mindset of a driver who expects to be lapped during a race and one who does not.

A perfect example was MARRS 1, when Dan got punted in T1 on the second or third lap. As he was working his way back through the field I was able to spot him coming waaaay before he ever got to me, and was able to plan accordingly and let him by safely and cleanly. As it turned out he caught me on the front straight when I was pretty much alone, so it probably wouldn't have been an issue anyway, but under different circumstances...

This is also not to say I believe that was a contributing factor to this incident - it seems pretty clear that the Miata driver didn't see Greg coming (at least I hope that's the case - as opposed to he knew Greg was coming and moved over anyway) and I don't know that headlights would make any difference if a driver wasn't using his mirrors. IMO it looks like Greg almost pulled of a great save, but the closing rate was just too high. It's really sad to see that many cars torn up because a driver wasn't aware of what was going on around him, but then how many close calls do we see from this very same thing? And for those who commented on the fact that the guy isn't a rookie - in my very short time racing I can say that I've seen more than a few 'experienced' drivers pull some pretty dumb moves.

One other question I had; Wilson, were you wearing any type of H&N restraint? If so, which one?

I glad to hear everyone was - relatively - uninjured, that could have been a lot worse.

[slopok]

From where I sit the miata made a bonehead move. It appears the driver was not aware of his surroundings (really sad). With that said I bet the overtaking driver wish he had a little more patience maybe a second or two.... Too bad for all the damage but everyone came out realatively OK

[dj10]

Earl, that wasn't my post but it certaintly applies. The more you standout in racing, color wise, the safer you will be. That is the reason I changed the color of the car from grey to it's present colors. I do use my headlights almost all the time not to freak anyone out, but to let them know where I'm at, if there are a lot of cars, I'll use my high beams. I feel for GA, this should not have happened if the pinata driver would have held his WIDE line instead of slaming the door on G we wouldn't be having the discussion. The video tells all except what was going throught the Pinata's driver mind. Damn G you didn't even get any candy after cracking that Pinata open! :~(

[JoshS]

Earl, that wasn't my post but it certaintly applies.

Yeah, it was mine.

If I'm the overall leader, or even just the leader of a pack, I turn the headlights on as soon as I see the back of the pack in front of me. High beams. However, if I'm NOT leading the race or a pack, then I don't ... I don't want to annoy the people who I'm trying to pass.

[dj10]

Yeah, it was mine.

If I'm the overall leader, or even just the leader of a pack, I turn the headlights on as soon as I see the back of the pack in front of me. High beams. However, if I'm NOT leading the race or a pack, then I don't ... I don't want to annoy the people who I'm trying to pass.

Josh, I could give a rats ass who is annoyed, as a matter of fact, if they are annoyed they see me and to me it's a matter of survival. Hopefully I get by them quickly then they won't be annoyed anymore.:cool:

[JoshS]

I meant that I didn't want to annoy the guy I'm chasing. The headlights are necessary so the lapped traffic sees me. But if I'm directly chasing someone (ie I'm in 2nd place) then the guy in first knows I'm there! He doesn't need high beams in his mirrors continuously for 5 laps. That's why I only use the lights if I'm leading a pack through traffic.

[joeg]

This is getting a bit drawn out. However, nothing is more "intimidating" than a black car on your butt...lights make it more so...

However, I do not think we want to mandate black cars for everyone and because we all race to the same GCR, you cannot mandate the use of headlights. Heck, many classes don't have headlights and every one with them is supposed to cover them up!

Cheers

[wwrightjr]

Jake, Went for a ride and hit the left and right guardrails ending up against the right rail. Car is totaled.
Earl, I'm kinda old and set in my ways. No restraints and open face helmut. Wilson

[dj10]

This is getting a bit drawn out. However, nothing is more "intimidating" than a black car on your butt...lights make it more so...

However, I do not think we want to mandate black cars for everyone and because we all race to the same GCR, you cannot mandate the use of headlights. Heck, many classes don't have headlights and every one with them is supposed to cover them up!

Cheers

No the light have to be taped up so who says you can't use clear tape? Most newer cars are coming through with plastic protective lens.

[jerestahl]

I am the driver of the white #45 Miata at Watkins Glen Fun One. I admit I was not aware Greg Amy was about to pass me. I was distracted by the car already off the track to my right. I am a rookie driver and WK was my first race in a brand new car. (Now junk.) I have been preached to over and over to maintain my line as it is always the over taking driver's responsability to pass me cleanly. After watching Gregs video many times I have concluded he did not hit me. In fact he cleared me and a car behind Greg must be the car who hit me, that knocked me into Greg's right rear which then turned him around. The three days in a hospital with a punctured lung and 3 broken ribs at age 73 is causing me to wonder exactly who did screw up.

[dj10]

I am the driver of the white #45 Miata at Watkins Glen Fun One. I admit I was not aware Greg Amy was about to pass me. I was distracted by the car already off the track to my right. I am a rookie driver and WK was my first race in a brand new car. (Now junk.) I have been preached to over and over to maintain my line as it is always the over taking driver's responsability to pass me cleanly. After watching Gregs video many times I have concluded he did not hit me. In fact he cleared me and a car behind Greg must be the car who hit me, that knocked me into Greg's right rear which then turned him around. The three days in a hospital with a punctured lung and 3 broken ribs at age 73 is causing me to wonder exactly who did screw up.

I hope you'll be ok. You need to be aware all the times, sometimes easier said than done, and you are responsible to give racing room, which you started to do by being off line by a car width +, then you slammed the door. I would suggest of some more drivers schools to get your lines down before returning to the arena.
Good Luck

[Jeremy Billiel]

Jere, I'm sorry to hear of your injuries and I am glad you are feeling better.

It's good to hear your side of the story, but we are pretty much confident that Greg hit your rear bumper and turned you sideways. No question, the video clearly shows that. In fact, there is purple paint marks on the right front corner of the front bumper, which correlate directly to a purple bumper sticker on your left rear fender.
But there's really two outstanding questions about the incident that I have. One, I'm curious as to why you came from so far offline to cross the track to the "wrong" side (that's not where you'd want to be for the subsequent straight). Did you see someone coming and try to get out of the way? Or was that just the line you were normally running?

And, we have yet to figure out how you were able to come from pointing right to turning left and t-boning the Integra in the right door. The Integra had what looked like a good 10 mph or more on you, so we just can't understand how that happened. Did you get hit by somebody when you were pointing right, which turned you left? Or did you get into a "tank slapper" and shoot left into the Integra? It's just odd that you hit the car so far forward, versus either sliding behind it or hitting the rear bumper.

I'm guessing you have no in-car video we could look at?

Again I am glad to hear you are doing better.

[JLawton]

Time to l.....e.....t... i.....t.... gooooooooooooooooooo

[joeg]

Jeff Is Absolutely Correct!

[lateapex911]

I'd second that. I imagine the Miata spun clockwise after the initial RF to LR contact, then just past 90 degrees, it shot backwards and across the track, into the side of the Teg. I bet the wheels weren't locked and it's drivers was along for the ride at that point.

After that it was pinball city.

Oh, I'd like to add that I was misinformed regarding the name of the driver, and his experience level. I'm glad I didn't name names, but sorry for the bad info.

And, I've broken ribs at the Glen too. There are worse things, but it's an annoying and a bit painful reminder of the event for the next 6 weeks. I hope your recovery is speedy and complete.

[benspeed]

Jerestahl - that's a shame the car was brand new and wrecked. What rotten deal. And the your injuries aren't minor. Laughing or coughing with broken ribs is agony - laying down for sleeping is painful too.

I commend you for not engaging in an online debate battle - you can claim it was the responsibility of the overtaking car and there would be some merit to the position per the GCR. There's some responsibility to be shared around - I'm not taking any sides on who was responsible.

Your fellow racers wish you a speedy recovery and I hope you make it back to the track.

[jerestahl]

What or why got in my head to pull down to the apex of the turn is beyond me. There is no doubt that I committed screwup #1. Did I have help in creating the $50,000 pile of bent sheet metal ?. Do all of us wish we could do it differently.... I'm sure. Who has the greatest responsibility is a moot point. The fact that God has apparently seen fit to give me more time is not influencing my wife to continue to support me racing and that is probably my greatest problem I'm facing today.