Is It Really Worth It?

[924Guy]

We're not talking lap times here...

It's blatant & It's obvious and it's NOT exit speed!

You should EARN every pass...
(Otherwise buy your own trophies....Their only 5 bucks)

Perhaps you should define what you mean by "earn"? Building a good motor not part of that equation in your book?

I've never pulled on anyone in my life...
Unless they were gushing blue smoke or were otherwise F'ed up.

That would seem at odds with your first statement, to me anyway.

I feel guilty about the 3rd I got today because the REAL 3rd place guy and the REAL 4th place guy took each other out.
I don't even know it I can put the wood up in my garage.

They were better drivers...
Not better car owners.

That's a pretty sad statement of a lack of self-confidence, IMO. They're not that much better drivers if they can't avoid taking eachother out, now, are they? Seems to me that you certainly did earn that trophy, and if you can't appreciate it, then it's time to hand it over to the next guy in line.

Ever think you don't have any competition? Ask the guys behind you if they'd agree with that statement.

And would you say they're better car owners than you? They didn't manage to avoid damaging their cars; in my book, that means you don't care for your car. I avoid contact and damage to every extent possible - because I built and maintain my car, and I value the time I don't have to spend fixing it.

So perhaps you should reevaluate how you feel about your racing - seems to me like you're giving yourself much less respect than you deserve. Personally, as much as I respect the guys running up front in CRX's and VW's, I actually have more respect for the poor SOB out there running an oddball car, doing it the hard way - it shows a lot more committment and guts than buying the latest flavor of winner. BTDT - and it's finally paying off.

And please take this as the backwars compliment it's intended to be. IT racing is supposed to about having fun, not holding grudges.

[lateapex911]

We're not talking lap times here...

It's blatant & It's obvious and it's NOT exit speed!

IF you are suggesting that you are getting passed because the other guy is cheating and built an illegal motor, you have little choice, write the paper. It is our job as competitors to self police. If we don't, we have to accept the result. It is really that simple.

Now, if you are suggesting that the car is classed unfairly, (yours or his) then there are essentially two choices. Write a letter to the ITAC requesting a review. Keep in mind there are no competition adjustments...but if the numbers don't line up, an adjustment is in order. However, the numbers can only come so close, and there will be "misses". Some cars just won't make process power, others might make a bit more. If that's the case, and you see that all cars of a certain model are fast down the straights, then it's time to do some thinking about car choice.

Trust me, as the owner of an ITA RX-7, I understand the realities of cars that are outliers. That's life.

[dlg208]

I'll give IT one more year and see what happens.

But I'm starting to think it's time to move on.

[924Guy]

It's been my experience that nothing will happen of its own accord; you need to make it happen. So what do you think will change in one year, and how do you plan to make that happen?

You don't just win races by accident, it takes a lot of planning and hard work...

[shwah]

Sorry Dave. I hate to be the jerk here, but I have to call BS on this whole tangent.

'Cars that sound like ITA cars' is a total load of crap. So now the exhaust/muffler system that a competitor uses is grounds to label them a cheater?

Like I said, I was there before, but the harder I worked on my setup, the more I realized that I was just being out prepped and out driven. And I still am at times.

But let's cut to the chase - you, Vaughan and I were all in the same race last month. Your comments smack as an accusation of cheating to people you don't know, and have not approached in any way about such an idea. I'm hoping that's not what you mean, but it is how it came across. I mean I drive an ITB VW that has a loud exhaust and was able to follow Vaughan and Beran to a 1:47.1xx lap at M-O...

Since you are worried about ITB VWs, I can tell you that my motor is absolutely legal. It also has damn near every allowed modification (no crank scraper yet), and probably about a dozen (or more) hours of dyno time to get every bit that I can out of it. (and at that, take a look at the videos of 08 IT Fest - I still couldn't run with the other front runners down the straight).

There are 3 possible things going on here:
1. Other racers are driving that course better and/or have better car prep.
2. Other racers have cars that are classified more competitively - this is the part where you can write a letter to ask whether they (your car and the other car) are classed at the proper weight. Don't worry, that letter has already gone in for the A2 and A3 VWs - maybe write one for your car.
3. You race against blatant cheaters but don't use the rules available to fix that.

In every instance the way to fix it is through taking some sort of action on your own part, not tossing out unfounded accusations on the intenet.

[tom_sprecher]

I can’t tell you guys how much I appreciate all the advice that has been offered and can assure you it has not fallen on deaf ears. It was great to find out there were others who are or have been in my situation and what they did to get through.

At the insistence of my wife (a.k.a. babe in bikini) after seeing me spend most of Thursday night crying in my beer, I jumped on the Harley and rode out to Barber on Friday just to hang out anyway. Although it was pretty damn hot, it lifted my spirits just being there and gave me a chance to talk about what I can do differently to afford racing.

I will be taking a break from running races probably until next year but will look for test days nearby that won’t cost too much in time or money until then. Volunteering to help the Region will definitely continue and I’ll still come up to the track on race weekends to hang out. Doing enough races on the cheap to keep my license is my plans as well and I will definitely avoid racing in the summer as it is too damn hot not to be laying around a pool somewhere.

Thanks again,

[dlg208]

I was able to follow Vaughan and Beran to a 1:47.1xx lap at M-O...

So you absolutely swear to freak'n god that you can turn 1:47.1 in a TOTALLY legal car?

Well...My apologies then.

[lateapex911]

So you absolutely swear to freak'n god that you can turn 1:47.1 in a TOTALLY legal car?

Well...My apologies then.

Honestly, you sound dubious....at best.

I bet Chris's car is not TOTALLY legal. I'd bet there is some turn signal lens that has a corner missing, or some screw that's stock and has fallen out...something that has been missed or overlooked.

But, I'd bet MY money that Chris and for that matter Vaughan are as close to 100% clean as you'll find.


(Oh, and an aside: I drive an RX-7. If you run large primary jets in the carb, they will sound ported as you drive around the paddock. Big time. And shoot flames (just for fun!). Am i cheating? Well, come back to my paddock spot with me, and allow me to swap carbs. (Takes me 5 minutes) Now listen as it purrs like a kitten. (Well, an annoying kitten!). Suddenly it's NOT ported. But hey, guess what!? Pssst!!.... the second carb?? ILLEGAL! Yup, it is clearly illegal.

So, your ears may be lying to you. )

[924Guy]

So you absolutely swear to freak'n god that you can turn 1:47.1 in a TOTALLY legal car?

Well...My apologies then.

Or faster, yes. My car most definitely is legal, and I know I still left something on the table there, even running 1:46.9.

Apology accepted at this end - thank you. Now back to racin'!

[krazy kyle ITB Pinto 99]

I feel guilty about the 3rd I got today because the REAL 3rd place guy and the REAL 4th place guy took each other out.
I don't even know it I can put the wood up in my garage.

you sat back and watched the battle, I broke mine,he wrecked his missing me,wish he wouldn't of, i feel like crap about it......, you drove on... yea you earned it , hang it..... you think we are gonna stop and wait when you mess up, notta chance... hang it you earned it.... all will agree...

[shwah]

So you absolutely swear to freak'n god that you can turn 1:47.1 in a TOTALLY legal car?

Well...My apologies then.

Yes.

Accepted - whether you mean it or not. If you don't mean it, write paper next August - my racing budget could use the money

To Jake's point - Sunday afternoon tech put a tape measure to everyone's tire and front air dam, wherever we happened to park in the impound area. He told me mine was low, didn't tell me how much, and didn't want to measure it more accurately, just put a note in my log book. I knew it was right when I put it on, and also knew I drove off track 3 times over the weekend. Measured it when I got home in as raced condition - same tires at the same corners, same fuel load. LF was just legal. Middle was about 1/2" above legal. RF was about 1/4" below legal - so I am building a new spoiler now, and will try to make it less likely to end up lower if I hit a curb with it. So yeah - it is as legal as I know how to make it.

[krazy kyle ITB Pinto 99]

We're not talking lap times here...

It's blatant & It's obvious and it's NOT exit speed!

You should EARN every pass...
(Otherwise buy your own trophies....Their only 5 bucks)

I've never pulled on anyone in my life...
Unless they were gushing blue smoke or were otherwise F'ed up.

I feel guilty about the 3rd I got today because the REAL 3rd place guy and the REAL 4th place guy took each other out.
I don't even know it I can put the wood up in my garage.

They were better drivers...
Not better car owners.

your car was better preped,,,,lol,, always is,, thats why you get the wood, and i got a shifter to carry around ......

[dlg208]

But hey, guess what!? Pssst!!.... the second carb?? ILLEGAL! Yup, it is clearly illegal.

So, your ears may be lying to you. )

It's a combination of things that makes me suspicious...Not just some loud exhaust
Pulling 6 car lengths in the back straight plus...
What sounds like a cam hooking up when they pass.

Exit speed and gears I understand but....Wow

Curious...Why do you carry around an illegal carb w/ you?

[lateapex911]

Curious...Why do you carry around an illegal carb w/ you?

Lot's of reasons. The illegal aspect is that the secondary opening method has been changed to a mechanical linkage. As it is on yours probably, and 95% of all the carbs in the world. Mazda used vacuum to do it. I borrowed the carb to check against mine when I ws having issues with it. When I first got mine, it wasn't reliable, so I used the borrowed one to drive the car around the paddock, load on the trailer and unload. A "winter carb" as it were. Now it's there for emergencies. (Thanks for the reminder, I have to give it back to the owner).

Oh...the performance is identical...no additional hp.

[Flyinglizard]

I got out when SCCA pissed off my kid at an autocross practice.
Yes, Practice day. We were late to registration , after helping another guy get unloaded. Now we run a 3/8mi. circle burner @ about $200per week. 28cars, 20 laps. way busy, and a great learning time for the kid , as he balances the car and traffic. There is the same feeling, watching your kid jam the race car around the outside from 21st starting spot to finish in the top three , as the turn one @ Sebring.
We are getting ready to go back to road racing, either with SCCA or NASA at the Local tracks.
Dont quit, put it aside for a while , IMHO. MM