LRP lap times old vs. new

[Doc Bro]

What I told you was the original head that I had built, assembled and installed out of state from 2006 (and lasted exactly one weekend because I lost the factory water to oil cooler hose and warped it) was illegal because it was improperly ported. .

Illegal none the less. Whether it lasted one race or all season it was illegal. I don't know how much more I have to listen. I heard you say that you had an illegal head on your engine.....how do my listening skills change what you said (and just repeated)? To quote you "I guess we see it differently". I see it as black and white, how do you see it?

I guess it's a good thing that the oil to water cooler hose warped it otherwise that head would've been on it all season....No?

R


Lemme guess your reply.....We're done here , enjoy fatherhood?

[Ed Funk]

Wish we had a twisted panties icon!! These boys both have theirs in a knot!

[Andy Bettencourt]

I guess it's a good thing that the oil to water cooler hose warped it otherwise that head would've been on it all season....No?

R

It would have been on until the motor popped for sure. Since it was built in the winter of 2005 and raced for the first time at the NHIS opener in 2006, it would have been on there the whole time. As 'luck' would have it, I had to remove it and spend another $1200 on a fresh one. Would have been real emabarassing to have that head pulled at an event like the ARRC - mostly because the porting job was sloppy and extended further than 1" into the chanbers - but also because it had never been cut down to get me the .5 bump in compression we are allowed. A poor job all around really that didn't even net the most power.

If you would like to drive the car at the NHMS test day coming up, you are wecome to. I'll bring the stopwatch.

[RSTPerformance]

Wish we had a twisted panties icon!! These boys both have theirs in a knot!

Ed, the great thing about ITC at the pro IT was A) you Won and you only could get your own panties in a bunch!!! lol Actually we have listened to some interesting data in all the classes except ITC, how did you find the track??? Faster?

Raymond "Great thing about ITB/ITC (and ITS/ITR I guess) is that none of us currently are wearing panties to get in a bunch..." Blethen

PS: Ed we still have your extra tie downs... Will you be at the RAL weekend? I will be stewarding and will try to remember them. otherwise they are in the trailer if you see it at any racesstop over and greab them if we forget to go to you!!!

[StephF]

Ed, the great thing about ITC at the pro IT was A) you Won and you only could get your own panties in a bunch!!! lol Actually we have listened to some interesting data in all the classes except ITC, how did you find the track??? Faster?

Raymond "Great thing about ITB/ITC (and ITS/ITR I guess) is that none of us currently are wearing panties to get in a bunch..." Blethen

PS: Ed we still have your extra tie downs... Will you be at the RAL weekend? I will be stewarding and will try to remember them. otherwise they are in the trailer if you see it at any racesstop over and greab them if we forget to go to you!!!

That's the nice thing about thongs, they're harder to bunch up!
:eek:
(hey! at least we are wearing underwear as opposed to you.....)
Look out Raymond: I'm chomping at the bit to come back to B and harass you guys! Hope the VIN rule takes effect.
Ed keeps looking at cages for my Del Sol....I hear him mumbling something about "Aaaaayyyyyy...."

[Doc Bro]

There are no panties in a bunch here, and no witch hunt. I've no bone to pick with Andy.

It's just hard to read Andy's posts about +60#, unfamiliar tires, -15whp superimposed on such a dominting performance, clearly in his words the car isn't 10/10ths. If you caught the facts then why aren't you voicing concern? Is it because parity in ITA isn't important to folks in other classes? If IT parity isn't important then why does everyone have an opinion about the ITS e36 mess?

The facts are that an ITA car shouldn't dominate ITS and ITR cars when it ISN'T at 10/10ths. Those ITS and ITR cars are 10/10ths and very well driven, by driver's who have generous amounts of seat time this year. How am I wrong here?

As for the test day, sounds good to me.....you're saying that it's all driver (and not car)?

For the test day experiment let's have you, and guys like; Driscoll, Maynard, Harding, Leverone, Henderson and even tGA, all do sessions then, and your times will be fastest. Right?

(Or is it the car??)

R

[Ed Funk]

What about me? I'd love to be back in a rear drive car, I'm old but not dead!

[RSTPerformance]

Rob-

I can't base anything on this one race...

I qualified 11th with a 1:05.xxx out of 38 cars with an ITB car that wouldn't rev much past 5500rpm (it skipped the entire straight) ... The ITR and ITS cars should probably be under 1:00.000 in my opinion. I do think that some of the best ITS cars were on track but maybe they just were not perfect this weekend... My brother was turning lap times that if he didn't start from last after the first turn incident would have been battling for a top 10 (possibly 7th?) place finish. As it is he came ALL THE WAY through the field to 14th... in an ITB car???

Obviously some people took longer to learn than others, and some people had car problems (such as myself)...

Sure Andy's car is fast, real fast. Why wouldn't he be, it is a perfect car for the track and he has setup data from how many Miata's and how many laps at Lime Rock??? His car is fast at Lime Rock, but I bet Andy's car wont be as fast at tracks like Pocono, simply due to the track. I know our cars are almost untouchable at Pocono but are absolute pigs at NHIS. ITC cars are as fast as ITB cars at Lime Rock, but forget it at Pocono. My nly point is that many times it is as much about track as it is car and/or driver. When I see Andy or any Miata dominate like the CRX or Integra once did at every track then I will start questioning things further.

Sorry Rob, this probably doesn't help your frustration...

Raymond

[JLawton]

Um, Raymond...... A Miata won both races at the Watkins Glen race the other week....... And I think Andy had fast lap at Pocono last year running against Greg? And hasn't run there since.

Not taking sides, just lookin' to prove you wrong!!!

[RSTPerformance]

jeff- i didn't realize that... I thought he didn't race Pocono cause be couldn't stay up, am I thinking of amy with the ms or someone else???

[Andy Bettencourt]

What I am saying Rob is simple. You get in my car at the test day and we will see how much 'car' is involved.

Again, as to who ran what at LRP, I think my numbers make sense. I honestly think the track is about 1 second faster for IT cars. I ran 2/10ths off my record - add in the second and was 1.2 seconds slower than I think the car/track/driver combo can be. Does that 1.2 seconds of estimate equate to the 60lbs and -15whp? I think you could make the arguement that it is sure close.

I have no idea why the ITS cars didn't run as fast as they have in the past. Might be a question for them. I know Steve Ulfelder has never really been close to them on time but at this race he was within 2/10ths as he ran a personal best. LRP is THE perfect track for the Miata, not to mention I love it there and have more than a few laps in.

If I held the 5 records at WGI and NHMS and Pocono, I might see it your way. I can tell you that if Hunter, Serra, Blaney etc were at the Pro IT, no lapping would have happened at LRP.

You can't measure a cars overall dominance based on one race at one track. It defines a slippery slope. If you want to quantify driver skill in this excersize, I am sure we can set something up for you and I.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Um, Raymond...... A Miata won both races at the Watkins Glen race the other week....... And I think Andy had fast lap at Pocono last year running against Greg? And hasn't run there since.

Not taking sides, just lookin' to prove you wrong!!!

Come on Lawton, you are better than this.

A Miata won both races at WGI the other week, running a tick under SM times and a FULL 2 seconds off Greg's track record. Proves what? Don't make me say it.

Andy did NOT have fast lap running against Greg last year in the race, I was actually almost a FULL SECOND slower (1:53.839 vs. 1:52.919). You are remembering me being on pole that race due to a HUGE tow I got from an ITS car on the back side.

Is the car fast and well developed? You bet. As dominant in-and-of-itself as the LRP results might show? Nope.

[lateapex911]

Where's the darn popcorn icon???

Says the guy in the RX-7 ...you know, the one that's not exactly an integra or a crx or a miata, or even a Z3! But hey, I'm working on it....

[Andy Bettencourt]

Movie is over Jake! Time to shut up and drive.

[dpc]

So did you put that old head on Pundo's sm or ssm.......dave

[Andy Bettencourt]

So did you put that old head on Pundo's sm or ssm.......dave

He let me use the motor that came in his car when he took delivery. Stock from the pan to the valve cover. 110whp when we took it out. 125whp when we hit the track. Interesting that the intake, header, exhaust and some dyno time with the programmable ECU netted us about 15whp. Simple math estimates that a B&B, port match, .5 point of compression bump and an overbore find the next 14-15 if we can get back to the 139-140 dynojets we had. It's an intersting excersize in all the bolt-ons vs. all the internals.

Currently I don't own a non-warped cylinder head that is IT-prepped.

[dpc]

yes that ans my question!!!!!!! dave

[JeffYoung]

Not sure why anyone is slamming Andy for admitting that he had an out of state engine builder build an illegal head (with Andy not being aware of it)......

Rob, the hardest thing for me to accept in the last 3-4 years as I have upped the prep level on the car is that some guys just get more out of their cars than me. Once the ITAC got the power/weight ratios on most cars correct, at least in ITS in the SEDiv it became really clear really quick that it was driver and prep level making the difference.

[gran racing]

I always thought that Flatout built your own engines. Guess not?

[Doc Bro]

Not sure why anyone is slamming Andy for admitting that he had an out of state engine builder build an illegal head (with Andy not being aware of it)......

Rob, the hardest thing for me to accept in the last 3-4 years as I have upped the prep level on the car is that some guys just get more out of their cars than me. Once the ITAC got the power/weight ratios on most cars correct, at least in ITS in the SEDiv it became really clear really quick that it was driver and prep level making the difference.

Jeff you've missed it all. Have another sip of the cool-aid. Come up to the NER and say that those ITS and ITR cars are underprepped.

Andy, it's not about me getting in your car, it's about good drivers getting in your car. Are you saying thart you'll spin faster laps in your car than Gorrorian will? No one has mentioned how an 8 (or 9) 10ths car can run with 10/10ths ITR and ITS cars regardless of tracks. I just don't buy it. Believe what you want I really don't care because I'm out but, if a legal 8/10ths Miata can do that the let me introduce you to the next class killer.

No black helicopters, no sky is falling, it's just a bunch of facts. Look at them for what they are.

R