LRP lap times old vs. new

[anthony1k]

I went to the last T&T at LRP and I really like what they've done to the place. I especially appreciate the extra runoff area at West Bend. Thank you paying club members!

I think it is safe to say that lap times are now lower. My question is by how much? Any thoughts?

[Andy Bettencourt]

I think by as much as 1 second.

[Jerome McElroy]

New Track Records as of Aug. 2, 2008 at LRP National:

Pro IT:
ITR David Maynard 1:01:581 89.443 mph
SSM Darrell LaPoint 1:03:159 87.208 mph

"D" Prepared Phil Parlotto (World Challenge BMW) 58.948 93.449 mph.

YMMV

Gee Dub

[Ed Funk]

I'd say ~ 1/2 sec for itb and itc, ~ 1 sec for ita and its.

[anthony1k]

Comparing race best times between last year's Runoffs and this years Pro IT race, I think it is hard to see a clear correlation.
After SP was resurfaced last year, lap times dropped by 2-3 seconds across the board. I just don't see that at LRP.

[Andy Bettencourt]

The fastest times of the year at LRP tend to be at the NARRC Runoffs if its dry. Cool and clean air help big with power.

Drivers will have to get used to a few new braking and turn-in points as well as experiment with set-up a bit. The ITR and DP records were soft so they fell.

I will be dissappointed if I don't dip in the 1:00.9xx range at the NRO's, even down 15whp like I am now. It will be fun to assault the records in late Sept if its dry.

[dickita15]

I don’t think the pro IT is a very good indicator. There were a few fast cars in each class but not the depth of fast cars the Narrc offs bring. Qualifying was damp and people were having some issues with finding turn in points and such. I will go out on a limb and say we may see 2 second drops if the weather is real good for the narrc off.

[BruceG]

Hi Dick

After going to the 3 day racing school at LRP in April(obviously, with the old surface and all the concrete strips in turns 2 and three), I went back on July 7th for a full day of lapping in Formula Skip Barber's. I think we did appr. 100 miles. All my references points in 2 and 3 were gone and the camber seems to have changed between turns one and two(seemed flatter on the old concrete strips). Turns 1,2 and 3 seemed slicker to me than the old surface:yet, the downhill under the bridge seemed to have more grip. Someone mentioned that they used a more expensive type of asphalt in 1,2 and 3(so it would last longer)which means harder.

LRP used us as test subjects for the 2 new chicanes, built for ALMS. They completely destroy the ebb and flow of the old track, in my opinion. You scrub off all your speed on the end of the back straight before the first chicane, the line after you go uphill is completely different before the last chicane, which is another 90 deg. before the bridge.

I hope there is never a SCCA race or track day(SCDA,etc) at LRP that ever has to use the new chicanes!!

Finally, there were a couple of us in racing school who thought we were pretty quick(compared to 80yr old men, people on crutches,etc). When we had our lapping day. we had a few IMSA lite drivers who were there for the race thar weekend that went in with us. They passed me on the first lap and I never saw them again!!. Gosh was I humbled.

Bruce

[Dave Patten]

By looking at the Small Bore results from the National, lap records should fall significantly. GTL, E, F & H Prod all set new records, all now under 1:00.

The GTL new and old records were by the same car and driver Wilson Wright. The prior record was set at the '07 NARRC Runoffs @ 59.6. The new records are GTL @ 57.6; EP, Kevin Leigh @ 57.9; FP, Steve Gorriaran @ 58.5; HP, Ron Bartel @ 59.9.

GTL dropped 2 full seconds and this was by the same car/driver. With good track conditions all records should drop significantly.

EDIT; Add that the ITR record dropped 1.5 seconds from the record set at the '07 NARRC Runoffs.

[Andy Bettencourt]

ITR record comparison is not so valid as the class is new and realizing it is still .7 slower than the ITS record and .1 slower than the ITA record.

I think it will depend on the class. The stiffer-sprung cars will gain more than anything that had any ability to soak up the bumps. Not sure how slicks fit into this having never driven on them. I bet the SS records fall slightly and the open wheelers drop big.

[maynard]

I Think traffic was also a big factor at the pro-it "38" cars. Also most of the cars had full fuel loads so times should be off my car came over the scales 60 pounds heavy plus i had my cool suit on because i firgued 45 minutes race in the heat , but i also think there's aleast another second or two in my car. I can't wait to go back.


Dave Maynard
ITR 325i

[Andy Bettencourt]

I Think traffic was also a big factor at the pro-it "38" cars. Also most of the cars had full fuel loads so times should be off my car came over the scales 60 pounds heavy plus i had my cool suit on because i firgued 45 minutes race in the heat , but i also think there's aleast another second or two in my car. I can't wait to go back.


Dave Maynard
ITR 325i

Excellent point Dave. I was 60lbs over minimum in impound...wasn't sure how to gauge the 45 minute race in terms of fuel.

[RSTPerformance]

I think Andy is right that the stiffer-sprung cars will gain more... Lime Rock is a lot about maintaining momentum, and the Audis (IT are more about long tracks were they can "run". The old Lime Rock it was tough to maintain the momentum in the turns with our cars (1800lbs on the front tires) but now that the track was smooth it seemed easy and we were able to "run" down the streights... Big Bend was so much faster for us (seemed like everyone was holding me up), the left hander was so much easier to get to the apex without being loose, the uphill and west bend was the same, but maybe a bit more grip. I didn't have trouble finding my markers. The Downhill had a ton of grip without that big unsettling bump in the apex!

I think over the next year or so ITB times to fall into the 1:02's but we (My brother and I) are happy in the 3's. I had car trouble and turned "normal" lap times and Stephen was 1 - 1.5 seconds a lap faster than normal but was also running on a fresh motor.

NARRC offs will be interesting. I would say that unbroken records could fall by over a second but people will need to behaive to get enough track time.

Raymond

[Doc Bro]

I will be dissappointed if I don't dip in the 1:00.9xx range at the NRO's, even down 15whp like I am now.

So let me get this straight.

You were 60# overweight, down 15 whp, finished 3rd overall in a 45 min race, beat EVERY ITS lap time, Beat every ITA lap time, lapped every ITA car 2x (except one), had a fast lap speed faster than ITS and within a fraction of ITR, had a lap time within .1 of ITR.......AND you have half the seat time as last year.

Fortunately for me, we're having a baby soon and I'll be retiring from ITA racing. Unfortunately for me a Z3 will be hard to sell when a Miata can do all of that....

I expect the abuse Andy, but those ARE the facts my friend.


R

[Andy Bettencourt]

So let me get this straight.

You were 60# overweight, down 15 whp, finished 3rd overall in a 45 min race, beat EVERY ITS lap time, Beat every ITA lap time, lapped every ITA car 2x (except one), had a fast lap speed faster than ITS and within a fraction of ITR, had a lap time within .1 of ITR.......AND you have half the seat time as last year.

Fortunately for me, we're having a baby soon and I'll be retiring from ITA racing. Unfortunately for me a Z3 will be hard to sell when a Miata can do all of that....

I expect the abuse Andy, but those ARE the facts my friend.


R

You got the facts straight. Not sure what you are getting at. The beauty is that an Integra did it before me and a CRX before that...

It just might not be all car. Drop the Z3 at FOM HQ and I will have some new LRP timeslips in your hand by the Runoffs...

[robits325is]

I was 115lb over at the end of the Pro-IT and my car had dangerous oversteer the entire race. I think I will get to the mid 00s once I get the set up correct - in other words hopefully I can get fast enough to finish 2nd in ITA......

[Doc Bro]

You got the facts straight. Not sure what you are getting at. The beauty is that an Integra did it before me and a CRX before that...

It just might not be all car. Drop the Z3 at FOM HQ and I will have some new LRP timeslips in your hand by the Runoffs...

What I'm getting at is that IF that is a legal car then;

Either you are THAT good a driver or the ITA Miata needs the gift of lead or both.

Did the 'teg or the CRX do that post lead? ...no.

Did they do it pre-lead to that extent? You know +60#, down 15whp, etc.

While I appreciate the offer, Dan is the smartest guy I know. This is probably it for me (seeing how my son's due date is 9/29 I doubt I'll get to the runoffs) so it doesn't really matter, but for everyone else.....

to quote theGA......just sayin'



PS; If it's not "all car" then are you implying that the ITS BMW's or ITR BMW's are not well driven, or even the ITA BMW for that matter?

R

[Andy Bettencourt]

For you to infer the car might not be legal ends our fun. Enjoy fatherhood!

[Doc Bro]

For you to infer the car might not be legal ends our fun. Enjoy fatherhood!

Please Andy,

Don't take the holier than thou approach.

First I didn't imply it wasn't legal, I said IF.....meaning neutral playing field per the rulebook....ie; ITA Miata at 8-9/10ths build. You stated the facts +60#, -15 WHP Is that 10/10ths?

Secondly....YOU were the one saying [at LRP and NJMP] that YOUR head on last years motor wasn't legal, not me, so the implications of legality or illegality came from you not me. I imply nothing. It's simply not that important to me.

I was only stating the facts based on your on track performance relative to very well prepared and very well driven ITR and ITS cars. And the assumption that your car is only 8-9/10ths (because of the +60# and the -15 whp).

I never saw an 8/10ths CRX or 'teg dominate ITS cars like that. That's all.

I'm super psyched for fatherhood...especially after our struggles.

R

[Andy Bettencourt]

Please Andy,

Don't take the holier than thou approach.

First I didn't imply it wasn't legal, I said IF.....meaning neutral playing field per the rulebook....ie; ITA Miata at 8-9/10ths build. You stated the facts +60#, -15 WHP Is that 10/10ths?

Secondly....YOU were the one saying [at LRP and NJMP] that YOUR head on last years motor wasn't legal, not me, so the implications of legality or illegality came from you not me. I imply nothing. It's simply not that important to me.

I was only stating the facts based on your on track performance relative to very well prepared and very well driven ITR and ITS cars. And the assumption that your car is only 8-9/10ths (because of the +60# and the -15 whp).

I never saw an 8/10ths CRX or 'teg dominate ITS cars like that. That's all.

I'm super psyched for fatherhood...especially after our struggles.

R

Then you really need to listen more when wee talk about my stuff. What I told you was the original head that I had built, assembled and installed out of state from 2006 (and lasted exactly one weekend because I lost the factory water to oil cooler hose and warped it) was illegal because it was improperly ported. The second head I had done was done locally and exacting specs were given. Should you like the rest of the story of my engine woes, you know where to find me.

I can't pretend to understand why some were slow that weekend. Why was Rob faster than me at last years Runoffs when I had all the power and 30 less pounds? You tell me. We have been saying that the track could be as much as 1-2 seconds faster now, yet I was .2 off my record. The numbers seem to work in my mind.

Either way, LRP is the only track up here a Miata holds a record at. CRX at Pocono and NX2000 everywhere else. Lead indeed.