2008 ARRC by GRM Tentative Schedule

[Butch Kummer]

I don't want to take away from Todd's time to bask in what sounds like a great IT-Spec*Tacular, but the question came up on the MaMTMNBM (tm) website so I decided to copy my response over here as well.

= = = = = = =

See later in the thread (Page 2) for the current proposed schedule...

[RacerBowie]

I like it a lot.

The big worry, and one you seem to have taken into consideration, is how to split up the groups when the Pro Paddock thing happens.

Having all the IT cars in one paddock and all the open wheel/ big bore cars in another is probably the best way to do it, as those groups don't cross-pollinate very much.

Well done, Butch! As I told you at the July race, you are certainly doing this right. Todd did it right as well for the IT Fest. This is a good time to be a racer around here.

[tom91ita]

the IT fest has certainly wetted my appetite for the ARRC.

looking forward to it.

[Butch Kummer]

Todd did it right as well for the IT Fest.

Yes, he does - and we communicate on a pretty regular basis to make sure we're heading a similar direction. Now all I need to do is convince him to add GTA to the IT-Fest!

I'd also like to hear more about the gas card thing...

[Butch Kummer]

Oh - and one other thing:

The first qualifying session will be lined up as you get to Grid while the second (shorter) one will be lined up based on your best lap in the first session. Not as structured as the 8-lap qualifying races we used in July, but it SHOULD reduce some of the traffic encounters in the second session.

See ya...

[chuck baader]

Butch, if you can get the pro pits for the IT group it will alleviate the overcrowding in the first paddock. Just think how much happier Fletcher will be. Chuck

[dj10]

"We will NOT have access to the Pro Paddock in 2008 (we've made other arrangements to relieve the crowded conditions)"

Butch, I'm all ears on how you are going to elleviate the congested paddocks? This was a monumenatal pain in the ass! There were almost fist fights when the stock car guys pulled in so close that we couldn't get our side door open or the tow vehicle in front of the trailer. Being stuck in a sardine can is not a good way to a fun weekend.:~)

[Butch Kummer]

By the time Bill Perry and I convinced our Race Board that we really could work out of both paddocks (do the terms "herding cats" or "but we've never done it that way before!" ring any bells?), Skip Barber had already scheduled one of their programs for the Pro Paddock that weekend and was unwilling to change it. I HAVE been assured that we'll have access to both paddocks in 2009 and beyond.

For 2008 we're going to put all the Stock Car guys in the gravel parking behind the old Panoz shops, then open the side gate by the old Registration building to enable easier access. Frees up some room in the Club Paddock and gets all us beer-drinking, fist-fighting, knuckle-dragging rednecks away from polite society. i.e. - moving us out of the main paddock will increase the average I.Q. level of both areas!

See ya...

[dj10]

For 2008 we're going to put all the Stock Car guys in the gravel parking behind the old Panoz shops, then open the side gate by the old Registration building to enable easier access. Frees up some room in the Club Paddock and gets all us beer-drinking, fist-fighting, knuckle-dragging rednecks away from polite society. i.e. - moving us out of the main paddock will increase the average I.Q. level of both areas!

See ya...

ROTFLMAO!!!!! Man am I glad you said that........:cool:

[Beran]

Ok - I'll ask something that is probably dumb...
What is ITT & SRX? What type of cars are these?
Also - ITB is racing with SSM or just qualifying with them?
I did the Pro IT race last year at the ARRC with the Miata's and it was crazy. I did the ITB race with IT7 and I think ITC... going from my poor memory.
The Miata's are close to ITB cars.... not sure if this is a good mix... Actually I not sure there is a good mix for Miata's and another group.
Who did they run with, if any, last year at the ARRC.
Also - Bowie... you cannot race in both groups.... need to pick only one.
B

[mlytle]

Ok - I'll ask something that is probably dumb...
What is ITT & SRX? What type of cars are these?
Also - ITB is racing with SSM or just qualifying with them?
I did the Pro IT race last year at the ARRC with the Miata's and it was crazy. I did the ITB race with IT7 and I think ITC... going from my poor memory.
The Miata's are close to ITB cars.... not sure if this is a good mix... Actually I not sure there is a good mix for Miata's and another group.
Who did they run with, if any, last year at the ARRC.
Also - Bowie... you cannot race in both groups.... need to pick only one.
B

ITT = IT pick'em up TRUCKS
SRX is SRX7...spec first gen rx7's.

[chewy8000]

I did the Pro IT race last year at the ARRC with the Miata's and it was crazy.
The Miata's are close to ITB cars.... not sure if this is a good mix... Actually I not sure there is a good mix for Miata's and another group.

Oh no, Miatas and VW's have some weird magnetic charge that cause them to collide all the time. Atleast mine does...

[shwah]

Not digging SSM in ITB group. Too many of the cars run too similar lap times, slightly differently.

[RacerBowie]

Also - Bowie... you cannot race in both groups.... need to pick only one.
B

I unfortunately have to pick Group 12: None of the above.

All I'll be racing ARRC weekend is a SM in the enduro.

[924Guy]

I agree, SSM would be a BAD fit in with B/C/T/SRX...

Gotta keep 'em separated!!

PS - last year we were ITB/ITC/ITT/SRX without more than average issues, IMO... adding SSM to the mix would change that...

[Beran]

Yes - I do have issue. Please do not run ITB and SSM. Different lines for front wheel with rear wheel and similar lap times.
Why not run them the same way as last year? I do not recal any issues last year.
I guess comparing the lap times for both groups could help. I do remember a really fast Miata in the Pro-IT race qualifying that I could not even come close to catching.
B

[tom91ita]

for purely selfish reasons, i would like to run ITB with ITC so i can try to follow the itc crx's to learn the track.....

[Butch Kummer]

The schedule I posted is not cast in concrete by any means, but let me explain my reasoning:

We need entries to keep entry fees somewhat reasonable (we're looking at $275 for the ARRC races this year), and we're losing 39 cars from 2007 now that FE has gone National. Everything I read about "how to change racing?" says guys want to be able to double or triple dip to save money by sharing the ride (and expenses) with a buddy. Splitting ASM and SSM into separate groups allows us to do that, and that could go along way toward recovering some of the ground we lost by FE no longer being eligible to run the ARRC.

By rule we can start 65 cars at Road Atlanta. Based on average participation for the last three years (I'll attach the spreadsheet if I can figure out how to do that), the groups I'm proposing will have the following (the track record per class is in parentheses):

Group 1 - 41.7 cars
ITB - 16.3 (1:46.126)
ITC - 10.7 (1:47.978)
ITT - 3.7 (1:51.157
SRX - 4.0 (1:50.127)
SSM - 7.0 (1:46.124)

Group 2 - 39.0 cars
IT7 - 10.0 (1:44.090)
ITA - 29.0 (1:42.054)

Group 3 - 44.0 cars
ASM - 40.0 (1:43.751)
DP - 0.0
ITU - 4.0 (1:42.392)

Group 4 - 33.0 cars
GP - ?? (1:45.282)
ITR - 4.0 (1:39.109)
ITS - 21.7 (1:39.564)
SPU - 7.3 (1:32.753)

Obviously we could pick up more SSM drivers by splitting them out from ASM (which is the point of doing so), but even if we have twenty SSM cars we're at 55 cars in Group 1 if everything else stays the same. ITB counts have been steady and ITC counts are dropping, and I don't see a great influx of ITT or SRX vehicles in our future. I'm thinking 5-10 GP cars may show (since they are no longer a Runoffs class), but I'd be VERY surprised if they show in double digits. (i.e. - moving SSM in with Group 4 could be a possibility.)

The current projected schedule has us getting off the track at 5:45 on Friday afternoon, so I don't believe we run more than eight run groups and give people a reasonable amount of track time.

One thing we can do for the first qualifying session is to split SSM out when we line you up on the Grid (the second session will be gridded by time turned in Session #1). I'm open to split starts for all races as well.

Given these parameters, I'm open to suggestions...

(Well I can't attach an Excel spreadsheet)

[lateapex911]

Butch, no easy answers, but I certainly like your open minded approach and transparent thinking.

In my eyes, having such a big deal race where one group has two distinct classes with the same lap records is problematic. Nobody wants to get hung up racing an out of class car while the car in your class eases away for a trophy.

While I see downsides, I'd seriously consider moving the SSMs to the GP group. The cornering speeds are pretty good on SMs, which means that the ITR and ITS cars won't get killed/held up badly thru the esses, and the power differences are such that passes should be easy. And I would ABSOLUTELY do a split start with them, but not one of those halfway back split starts. Keep them as tight as reasonable to give the everyone a chance to spread out before the lapping begins. To me, that makes more sense, and is the least damaging way of achieving your goal. (strong entries, reasonable fees)

Now, that creates issues with turnaround for the drivers, so I'd flip the group order, and run group 2 third, and group 3 second. That would have the side benefit of making the IT guys happier, as they can watch the other IT races. (It's all about us, Butch! )

I think it's important to keep in mind the cornerstone of your event, which is to provide the highest level class races.... and adding a class with the same lapping times to an existing class is going to destroy that cornerstone.

[924Guy]

+1 to all that Jake has said...