What to do when it goes wrong....

[tnord]

actually, the one time i filed a protest, i was told i had 30min to notify the stewards of my intention of filing a protest, not 30 min to actually complete everything.

[erlrich]

What's your standard on how you handle a screw up? How do you want someone to handle it if they screw your car up?

In my eyes, if you cause, or are partially responsible for an incident, you should:

-Seek the other guy out as soon as practical. If you can't, find a friend to get word to him somehow.

- If it's determined that you blew it, offer what you can to make it right. If it means you don't race the next day, then that's the way it goes. If you can't do anything labor-wise, find someone who can for you, or pay someone. Do whatever you can to make sure the guy races the next day.

- If the damage needs after event remediation, offer to help by calling in favors from your mechanic, bodyshop or whatever connections if it's convenient to the other guy.

What to others think?

Maybe I'm in the minority, but unless I did something so completely boneheaded and blatantly stupid that there was zero excuse for my actions, I would feel like it was a racing deal. I would certainly seek out the other driver and apologize to him, and try to offer some explanation for what happened, but let's face it, this IS auto racing, and shit DOES happen. Likewise, unless another driver did something that I felt was totally avoidable, or worse intentional I would never expect anything other than an apology and explanation from him. I would certainly not expect him to pay to repair my car. If his actions warranted it I might consider taking the cost out of his ass, and of course filing a protest would be in order; but I go into this sport with the full knowledge that on any given day I could be taking my car (and my ass) home in pieces, and accept that risk every time I go out on track.

Now, I have to qualify that answer by saying that I've only been involved in any serious contact once - well, twice actually - but they both occurred within one lap and were somewhat related, so I only count it as one , and so I don't have a lot of experience to draw from.

[JLawton]

Maybe I'm in the minority, but unless I did something so completely boneheaded and blatantly stupid that there was zero excuse for my actions, I would feel like it was a racing deal. I would certainly seek out the other driver and apologize to him, and try to offer some explanation for what happened, but let's face it, this IS auto racing, and shit DOES happen. Likewise, unless another driver did something that I felt was totally avoidable, or worse intentional I would never expect anything other than an apology and explanation from him. I would certainly not expect him to pay to repair my car. If his actions warranted it I might consider taking the cost out of his ass, and of course filing a protest would be in order; but I go into this sport with the full knowledge that on any given day I could be taking my car (and my ass) home in pieces, and accept that risk every time I go out on track.

Now, I have to qualify that answer by saying that I've only been involved in any serious contact once - well, twice actually - but they both occurred within one lap and were somewhat related, so I only count it as one , and so I don't have a lot of experience to draw from.

Oh shit!!! And I'll be racing with you at some point!!!????? I'll stay as far away as possible!!!

[erlrich]

Oh shit!!! And I'll be racing with you at some point!!!????? I'll stay as far away as possible!!!

Don't worry Jeff, I'm leaving the car at home this weekend - I'm just gonna stand at the end of pit lane and dare you guys to hit me - then point and laugh when you come in with the sheet metal wrinkled

Besides, you failed to pick up on the concept that I have yet to do anything boneheaded and blatantly stupid - well, at least in my opinion, which is the only one that really matters, right?

Unless of course you count letting Crazy Joe drive my car around Pocono...but I really didn't know any better at the time

[benspeed]

I will come to your paddock and pummel you so don't hit my car. Wait, is that politically correct?

Maybe I'll just leave a giant dog poo in the driver seat of your car if you hit my car. That's more correct, right?

[JLawton]

Don't worry Jeff, I'm leaving the car at home this weekend - I'm just gonna stand at the end of pit lane and dare you guys to hit me - then point and laugh when you come in with the sheet metal wrinkled

Besides, you failed to pick up on the concept that I have yet to do anything boneheaded and blatantly stupid yet - well, at least in my opinion, which is the only one that really matters, right?

Unless of course you count letting Crazy Joe drive my car around Pocono...but I really didn't know any better at the time

Thank god my plastic doesn't wrinkle!! (driving a Saturn isn't always bad!!)

Make sure you come introduce yourself this weekend!!

[Tristan Smith]

Last July I was t-boned in turn 7 at Road Atlanta by a ITS Porsche 944. My car was torn up. I think he totally screwed the pooch, and having watched his in car video as he showed it to the stewards during my protest......I was further convinced. My car was tagged and forced into a innocent bystander, a Fiero going around the outside of the corner. He and I spoke at the protest and I apologized for the damage caused to his car even though I don't feel it was my fault. I never once had the opportunity to speak with the 944 driver since he never felt it appropriate to seek me out and speak to me about it, after the incident or at the protest. It was difficult for me seek him out as I sat on the wall for the rest of the race waiting for a flatbed (the motor blew up on the next lap). I thought is was totally classless. So now I have a new approach. You hit me like that, and don't come over and argue it out with me, and I make it my life ambition to punt you off the track at every chance I get. A bit harsh maybe, but I am sick of having my car torn without as much as a "screw you".

[dominojd]

Besides, you failed to pick up on the concept that I have yet to do anything boneheaded and blatantly stupid - well, at least in my opinion, which is the only one that really matters, right?

Unless of course you count letting Crazy Joe drive my car around Pocono...but I really didn't know any better at the time

Come on now that has to be the smartest thing you have ever done. I showed you at an early stage in your racing career WHAT NOT TO DO.

[erlrich]

Come on now that has to be the smartest thing you have ever done. I showed you at an early stage in your racing career WHAT NOT TO DO.

I think I could have probably learned that just as well by watching your in-car videos though

But seriously, I will say I learned more about what my car was capable of in a few laps in the passenger seat than I would have in a few days of just being out there on my own, so in that sense all the terror was really worth it

[JeffYoung]

What was the outcome of the protest?

The only significant on track contact I've had in 4 years of this (fingers crossed) was at Charlotte in 04. I had to lock up to miss a guy first lap who I feel cut me off in turn 3, ran out of talent and slid up and into an innocent ITS RX7 (Russ Boatwright).

I knocked the bumper off my car and tore up a quarter panel and the door. Russ had door damage. The guy I locked them down to miss got away clean.

I went and apologized to Russ afterwards and explained what happened from my perspective. He was very gracious, much appreciated.

The guy who caused the mess (and knew it) never said a word. Makes you want to Tristan the guy! Seriously, I am a truly believer in taking a few to calm down and then and going and talking about it (whether I'm at fault or not).

Tristan is the car fixed?

Last July I was t-boned in turn 7 at Road Atlanta by a ITS Porsche 944. My car was torn up. I think he totally screwed the pooch, and having watched his in car video as he showed it to the stewards during my protest......I was further convinced. My car was tagged and forced into a innocent bystander, a Fiero going around the outside of the corner. He and I spoke at the protest and I apologized for the damage caused to his car even though I don't feel it was my fault. I never once had the opportunity to speak with the 944 driver since he never felt it appropriate to seek me out and speak to me about it, after the incident or at the protest. It was difficult for me seek him out as I sat on the wall for the rest of the race waiting for a flatbed (the motor blew up on the next lap). I thought is was totally classless. So now I have a new approach. You hit me like that, and don't come over and argue it out with me, and I make it my life ambition to punt you off the track at every chance I get. A bit harsh maybe, but I am sick of having my car torn without as much as a "screw you".

[Tristan Smith]

Hi Jeff,
yep, will be breaking in the motor tomorrow during the Rd Atl. test day, and all the body work has been done. So, it looks pretty back to normal. I have gone over the whole car, and I think everything is ok on it, but I won't know till I get it out for a few laps. But even if the car is fine, the driver is rusty, rusty, rusty! So I don't plan on making any "hard charges" to the front of the pack this weekend.

Here's an interesting tidbit. While I had the radiator ought, I gently tapped and blew out the junk in the radiator. I got a full CUP of sand and debris out of it. Man, that may explain why it running hot last year! Hey 240sx guys, CLEAN out your radiator! It may cool that dam thing done a bit. It'll be part of the pre race weekend routine for now on.

[Z3_GoCar]

Only incident I've had to date (knock on wood) were single car spin-outs. One time I kicked up dirt on the track at a high speed corner. Ralph Warren went off track to avoid me and tore his splitter off. I didn't know about any of this as it was obsured by the dust cloud. Mike Mills came over and told me about his torn splitter, and I went straight over and appologised and offered to help. I got an invatation to come over for Margareta's that evening. We do this for fun, and bowling trophies, crushed panels and possible injuries or killing someone aren't worth it to me. I leave it to the pro's for that kind of entertainment. So when I'm with others around me I drive very much mindful of that. I look at it as a high speed chess match, or how can I use my advantage with out giving away my disadvantage? If that means planning and executing a pass over several corners then so be it.

James

[Ron Earp]

I find this thread quite interesting. Many different perspectives here and some good advice as well. 2008 is my first full year racing in a class (ITS) and I made a mistake in a Carolina Cup race and hit a SRF. I found the guy immediately, apologized to him, and all was well. I also went to the steward to “turn myself in” and he was very appreciative too. The major reason I think this turned out well was the nature of the fellow I hit, a very understanding guy, and to a lesser extent being proactive and fessing up all around.

But what happens with combative personalities? What obligations as a racer do you have?

For example, what if you cause an incident and damage another guy’s car (who is well known to be something of an ass) and he demands money from you? You’re a straight up guy like many of those represented in this thread and you want to do the right thing. But you know that if the situation were reversed you’d not be getting reparations from the guy you hit.

Where is the line for “one of those racing deals”? I’m sure the line varies from situation to situation.

So Tristan is this what you've been working on in the shop space with Judson? Hope to see you back on track soon.

[JeffYoung]

You're only obligations are under the GCR, which prohibits you from being abusive or violent (as it should), and also lays out penalties if you violate the rules of the road.

Anything else is up to you.

If I did something completely stupid and tore up someone's car, I would offer to pay for it. I also would not expect someone else to do the same, because we are all on track together with the understanding that these things happen.

I'm going to use a couple of names here just because I think they handled it perfectly.

Kent Thompson and Steve Eckerich were racing hard for a win at VIR last year, and Kent got into Steve's door at the top of roller coaster. After the race, my understanding is Kent went to Steve and apologized and offered to pay for the damage. Steve declined.

Both guys = class.

[lateapex911]

Good example. Racing for the win, between two known talents is, IMO, going to result in possible contact from time to time. And that result was handled really well, I think. If I were the passer in that situation, I would have done the same thing, (but I would have been surprised if the offer was taken) and if i was the passee, I would have thanked him for the offer and the visit, but refused.

Now, if the pass occurs mid pack, between two cars in different classes, who aren't the leaders in their respective classes, and the passee has pointed a guy by in a corner, yet the passer runs the passee off the road on the exit, I see the contact as wholly avoidable, (and largely inexcusable) and while I know there are no GCR mandates, if I were the passer, i would feel indebted to pay,...something...or do something...in addition to my profuse apologies. And if I were the guy run off the road, I think I might accept partial payment of some sort. When a foul occurs that was totally unneeded, and shows either a huge lack of skill, judgment, and GCR comprehension, or a lack of respect, then I think allowing the offending parties to make good might be in order. Barring that, if I felt the passer didn't understand his wrong, then I think I'd pursue protest action.

In my eyes, there are conditions which affect the proper outcome and behavior.

[dickita15]

I am not sure I would want to go down the road of paying for others damage. There is nothing wrong with making an offer I guess but I can’t see myself accepting and while I have yet to be in a situation where I have caused significant damage and been substantially at fault. I am not sure money is the way I would try to take responsibility. We all take the risk we can handle
Besides my fenders are a lot cheaper than say Rob Breaut’s

[lateapex911]

Don't think Rob doesn't know that! I bet his eyes get as wide as saucers when I start dicing with him!

[JeffYoung]

Hey hey!

Tristan Smith takes second in his first race back....I guess not so rusty after all.

Good job man. May see you at Barber.

[Catch22]

Video always helps.

Immediately after Ed Ho put Renee in the turn 12 wall at the '05 ARRC enduro I was ready to have his ass hanged. I talked to the stewards, got some advice, the whole thing (after Renee was released from medical of course). After a couple of minutes of conversation (the race was still going on) Renee says something to the effect of "I'm not sure it was really Ed's fault."

Huh?
He punted you in the middle of the turn. OBVIOUSLY he's an asshat!
Right?

Well... Not so fast.
Renee's memory was fuzzy because it happened so fast and she'd just smacked a concrete wall, but she kept thinking the Miata in front of her was the issue.
Well, sure enough, when we retrieved the camera it clearly showed the Miata had checked up on turn-in, Renee had lifted and pulled right to avoid the Miata, sideswiped it just before the apex, and Ed very likely was left with nowhere to go. That ended up being the case after we all got together and talked after the race (which Ed ended up winning BTW).

Importantly, even though he had just won the ARRC enduro the first thing Ed did after rolling across the scales was find Renee and make sure she was OK. They talked, looked at video, and agreed on what happened. No hard feelings a all. Actually Renee hugged him and congratulated him on his win.

The Miata guy... Never came by. Never did nothing.
Renee finally (when I was busy trying to get a bent car on the trailer. A 6 person job with a come-along) went over to "thank" him for lifiting in turn 12 and ask what was up with that. He brushed her off mumbling about how his car was handling badly. She made sure he understood his poorly handling car took out the class leader in another class, and thanked him for his situational awareness.
She didn't tell me about this until we were home, which is why that guy still has all of his teeth. The video showed that both Ed and Renee (fighting for p1 in ITC) had attempted passes on this guy multiple times before the incident. He either outran them down the next straight or just plain blocked them. Remember, this is the p20 Miata, which the driver later said was ill handling, BLOCKING the ITC leaders. Now thats some situational awareness right there.

If you are in a SM, and you have to resort to blocking to keep ITC cars behind you, you just need to get the hell out of the way. Seriously.

A prime example of how NOT to do it and how to do it all in one incident.

Then there is also the "Thats Just Racing" stuff. I'm sure the guy I had contact with in Madness last month thinks it was my fault. I think it was his fault.
I tried to find him after the race but never did. I have no idea if he tried to find me.
<shrug>

[Ed Funk]

[quote=Catch22;270096]Video always helps.






If you are in a SM, and you have to resort to blocking to keep ITC cars behind you, you just need to get the hell out of the way. Seriously.

My answer, is these "people" need to find another sport!